STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND

HANIF KUREISHI is at the forefront of a new generation of British writers whose experience of Tory England is refracted, culturally and socially, through his Pakistani heritage. In other words, he is to literature what Cornershop are to the music scene. And to say that he is no stranger to controversy is a little like saying Albert Reynolds travels abroad occasionally.

His first play, Borderline, caused outrage in Britain's Asian community because it depicted an Indian girl having sex before marriage. When his debut film, the Oscar nominated My Beautiful Laundrette, opened in New York, the Pakistani Action Committee objected to his depiction of Pakistanis as sodomite smack dealers and threatened to blow up the cinema.

Not that Asians are the only section of society whose psychic nerves have been trod on by Kureishi. When Sammy and Rosie Get Laid was released, Norman Stone, the Oxford Professor of History, wrote an astonishing and completely over the top article in The Sunday Times, cursing the "overall feeling of disgust and decay" that permeated Kureishi's films, dismissing them as "worthless and insulting" because they "run down Mrs Thatcher."

In retaliation, Kureishi detailed his views on Thatcher's Britain in an article published in The Guardian: "I am starting to feel that it (England) is an intolerant, racist, homophobic, narrow-minded, authoritarian rathole run by vicious suburban-minded, materialistic philistines who think democracy is constituted by the selling of a few council houses and shares." An invitation to the Palace, quite clearly, was no longer on the cards.

Of all the stories about Kureishi though - and they are myriad - there's one that just about sums him up. It goes like this. An aunt of Kureishi's saw My Beautiful Laundrette and was so disgusted that she felt compelled to write him a letter. One of the nicer passages went like this: "It only brings to light your complete lack of loyalty, integrity and compassion. We didn't know you were a 'poofter'. We do hope you're aware of AIDS and its dangers. If not, a medical leaflet can be sent to you. Why do you have to promote the widely held view of the British that all evil stems from Pakistani immigrants? Thank goodness for top quality films like Gandhi." Kureishi's response was to name a character in Sammy and Rosie Get Laid after her. The Asian lesbian to be precise.

Today, Hanif Kureishi still courts controversy. His most recent film London Kills Me fairly clipped England's right wing and his novel, The Buddha of Suburbia, wasn't high on any Asian Christmas shopping lists. A television series based on Buddha also seems set to shock. This interview took place in Bewleys of Galway on the eve of his Arts Festival reading.

OLAF TYARANSEN: Most of your work deals with themes of race and identity. Did you find your race a disadvantage when starting a writing career in England?

HANIF KUREISHI: No, it made it easier for me. It was easy because theatres and Channel Four and publishers were looking for new stories, new writers, y'know. The whole culture industry thrives on the word 'new'. So that helped me. People hadn't been told these stories before.

Many of the characters in your films and books are Asians living in and coming to terms with Britain. How much of your work is autobiographical?

Well I suppose the Buddha was in some way. But, y'know, no-one's life has that shape to it. Laundrette wasn't really autobiographical because I never ran a laundrette but on the other hand I grew up with kids who became racists and skinheads so there's that. Or the book I'm writing at the moment which is about fundamentalism. I mean I know those kids. I've met them and I've researched them and also I draw from my own experience but it's still not my story either. So it's a mixture - what you feel, what you know, what you see around you. I don't know about someone like Roddy Doyle and The Commitments. I'm sure he wasn't in a band like that. But he knew about that and that world so he sorta mixed it all up.

Are you Karim Amir, the main character in The Buddha of Suburbia?

(Laughing) Well, the big difference between me and Karim is that when I was quite young I knew I wanted to be a writer and I had quite a strong sense of ambition. Karim sort of drifts around maybe he wants to be an actor, maybe he doesn't. I was always more determined than he is. But some aspects of Karim are me, sure.

It's also been suggested that the Charlie character was based on Billy Idol whom you went to school with. Is that true?

Well it's true that I used to go to school with him yes. He wasn't called Billy Idol then (laughs). David Bowie also went to the same school as me. It's funny, suburban schools in London tend to breed a particular type. You don't leave school to become a chartered accountant, you leave to become a rock star and hang out with models. But I'd better say nothing about Charlie being based on either of them. You get people's lawyers chasing you if you say things like that.

Actually, Bowie is doing the soundtrack for the television version of Buddha. I met him at a party in London and asked him could we use some of his old songs for the film and he agreed and also suggested that I write some new ones for him to record. So at the moment I'm writing songs for David Bowie. (Laughs). Make sure you put that in.

Why did you set the Buddha in the seventies? Most of your films are set against Thatcher's eighties.

Because that was my day. I knew that period when I grew up - the attitudes, the clothes, the music. I've only gotten old recently.

What music do you listen to now?

I listen to Prince a lot. I like him. I listen to African music. I used to listen to a lot of indie music, y'know The Stone Roses, Happy Mondays and the like. But I got a bit bored with all that. I like U2 actually. I just got their new album. I suppose I listen to everything because I listen to music when I'm writing. So I listen to music all fucking day. Everything from Led Zeppelin to Steve Wright, Depeche Mode to Beethoven.

Describe your working day.

Well I usually write in the mornings, from nine o'clock till about one. Then I go to the caff, see people in the afternoons my agent, journalists, y'know, take care of business. In the evenings I go to the pub. Or I go to a gig or the pictures. But all that's about to change because my girlfriend's expecting two kids.

Two kids?

Yeah, twins. I saw the scan the day before yesterday. It looked like Mars photographed from Jupiter. They're due in about twelve weeks so I'm writing against time at the moment. I dunno if I'll finish the book before Doomsday arrives though (laughs).

You're quite critical of London, indeed England, in your essay 'The Rainbow Sign'. Will you continue to live there when you become a father?

For the time being yeah. I'll try it see how I get on. I wouldn't like to leave London because I write about the city and I like writing about cities. Once you move out maybe you wouldn't have the same stimulus - I don't know.

Do you go to Pakistan regularly?

I haven't been for ages. I haven't been because I hated it so much. I mean I like my family, but I hated all the fucking Islam and the religion y'know? It's very heavy and disturbing to be somewhere where everything is rooted in religion - it's worse than Ireland. It's disturbing because there's no freedom of the press, no news - just propaganda, it's totally impossible to be a writer. Basically I found it very disturbing living in a country that's ruled by God.

How do your family - and extended family - feel about your work?

Well it's a mixture really - of repulsion and pride. You know, they're proud that I've made something of myself and my life, people know who I am. At the same time they're ashamed that you write about 'dirty' things like drugs and homosexuals.

Are your books available in Pakistan?

Fuck no. I'm proud to say that all of my work is banned in Pakistan. I'd be doing something wrong if it wasn't (laughs).

I heard that you named the Asian lesbian in Sammy and Rosie after an aunt of yours . . .

Oh her (laughs). She doesn't talk to me, none of that side of the family do. They hate me and they hate my work. They think I'm disgusting, they think I'm a pervert. They're ashamed.

But aren't you deliberately getting at them?

Yeah.

You've made a lot of enemies through your writing as has your friend Salman Rushdie. Do you see him often?

I see him now and again, he gets out fairly often. He was in America recently actually. He has to get around, he'd go barmy if he couldn't. What would you do if you only had Branch men for company? Actually, most of the Branch men who guard Salman are now taking degrees at the Open University. I think he helps them with their homework (laughs).

How do you feel about his situation?

I'm deeply concerned about it, he's a writer like me and also he's a friend of mine. What's happened to him is horrific. It's something that's happening to writers all over the world y'know. Two weeks ago in Turkey, thirty-five people - intellectuals and writers - were burnt to death. I think that fundamentalism is the most terrifying thing happening in the world at the moment.

You've been in trouble yourself. I understand that when My Beautiful Laundrette opened in New York, the Pakistani Action Committee demonstrated outside the cinema holding up banners saying "MY BEAUTIFUL LAUNDRETTE IS THE CREATION OF A SICK AND PERVERTED MIND."

Yeah that's true. There were big demonstrations against it. That was pre-Rushdie though, 1986 I think. Yeah, they demonstrated every Sunday. I've got photographs of it (laughs). I used to join the demonstrations because I really wanted to talk to them. It was terrifying at one stage because they tried to bomb the cinema. Well, they threatened to at least. But you must realise that writers all over the world are living in these conditions - writers in Algeria, Egypt, Pakistan. In most of the world writers are under threat or living in fear.

Aren't you asking for trouble though? You once said that your stated aim was to get as much filth and anarchy into your films as possible.

(Laughs). Oh that was a Sammy and Rosie quote wasn't it? Well there's plenty of filth in the film of the Buddha but not too much anarchy. But the others weren't all that bad were they?

Norman Stone seemed to think so.

Oh, I don't mind all that (waves hand dismissively). His article was very good for sales - all that controversy. I'm hoping for a bit of controversy when the Buddha comes out on TV actually.

So you're looking for controversy?

Well it's not difficult to wind up those Thatcherites y'know - they're arseholes anyway. Just say 'Boo' to them and they go into a panic. I think that it's one thing that writers can do - ask questions, make trouble, cause debate. I don't have any objections to that, I think it's part of our job. Writers have always done that. Look at Sartre or Camus. In America you have people like James Baldwin and Norman Mailer, they were always stirring shit politically y'know. Even in Ireland, look at Joyce. Writers have always stirred the shit. I think that's important. I don't think you should avoid that.

Have you ever been the subject of a racist attack?

Lots of times. When I was a kid, a teenager growing up in South London, there were kids on the street who would spit at you, kick you, hassle you all the time. It was an everyday occurence for me. I don't mean I was beaten up everyday. People just have a certain way of looking at you, of relating to you. They talk to you as if you can't speak English. Where are you from? How long have you lived in England? Do you like the weather? These are all racist attacks. It just pisses you off the whole time.

You moved away from race themes in your film London Kills Me. Why?

When I made that film I had just finished writing The Buddha of Suburbia which had been partly about my own life, partly about race and racism, all that stuff. So I wanted to do something that was outside myself. So I met with these kids and I talked to them and hung out with them. Y'know, these kids have nothing, just drugs for escape. Their lives are the streets, the raves, dealing and so on. So I sort of made an objective film about things not concerned with my own passions. That's why I wanted to make it . . . (pauses and then reflects thoughtfully) . . . y'know that film got a real going over from the critics. People really hated it. I don't know why, I mean maybe it was just a bad film but even so, the hatred was a bit overwhelming. I think that the critics just hated the characters. They're not used to meeting people like that. They don't think they're real.

There's a very strong anti-drug message in that film . . .

Is there?

The scene where Tomtom is out in the countryside and makes his "druggies are boring" speech. I couldn't help wondering if that represented a drug-related epiphany in your life.

No, not really. I use drugs and in fact think that most of them should be legalised. All this talk about The Drug Problem really pisses me off. The drugs aren't a problem. The things that drive people to use drugs to escape are the problem. But these things, like unemployment, are harder to deal with so it's easier for the government to blame drugs and drug users for everything rather than face up to the facts.

What do you think of film-makers who deal with similar themes of race and disillusionment in America? Spike Lee for instance?

Spike yeah, I like him. He came to see Sammy and Rosie when it was on in New York. He was very nice, very generous, very good. He nicked the riot scenes for Do The Right Thing as well (laughs). Stole them from Sammy. Y'know, the scene where they throw the dustbin through the window of the laundrette. I didn't mind though. Yeah, I like a few of the American guys. I like the guy who made Boyz N The Hood (Jon Singleton). There's a few black directors who are really good.

Are you religious in any way?

No, I'm a secularist. I dislike religion intensely. But I'm interested in ideologies like Thatcherism or Islam, both forms of extreme ideology which as a kind of liberal leftie I find abhorrent. But obviously we have to engage with this. These are the forces which determine how we live in our world. You can't ignore it. Especially as so many Asian people I know in Britain are turning to Islam, to fundamentalism, to ideological Islam . . . and these kids are only seventeen, eighteen, nineteen. They're British like me and they believe in Paradise and they hate gays and they believe in arranged marriages, read the Koran and follow it to the letter and so on. That's very disturbing and very interesting.

Could you see yourself in a Rushdie type situation? Do you not feel at risk?

Well I've never written anything which could be seen as being blasphemous.

How about the book you're working on about Fundamentalists?

I don't know if that's a problem. Well I've never had any trouble yet. I may do.

Have you titled it yet?

Yeah. It's called The Black Album.