Take me to your leader

They say you can tell a lot by a person’s handshake – particularly a politician’s. In fact, Primary Colours, which is about Bill Clinton’s first presidential campaign, has a section on the art of handshaking.

In it, the “anonymous” author describes the former US president’s techniques for the simple handshake – if Clinton touched you below the elbow, while shaking your hand, it meant he liked you, but if he touched you above the shoulder it meant that he would keep you at a distance.
Clinton reserved a special two-hand clasp for those he didn’t know but “wanted to share something emotional with”. And it’s this type of handshake I receive when I am introduced to Enda Kenny: he grasps my right hand with both of his for several lingering seconds, before warmly welcoming me into his gargantuan office.
There is no doubting that the Mayo deputy has cultivated a new persona and image since being elevated to leader of the opposition, inspired by Clinton and JFK. But these aren’t Kenny's only U.S. influences. It was the arch right-winger Newt Gingrich who penned the “Contract With America”, which Kenny openly admits inspired his recent election manifesto. Entitled “The Contract”, it is a list of 14 issues on which Kenny promises to deliver if Fine Gael get into government. If they don’t achieve these goals, the 56-year-old is promising not to seek re-election. “I am putting my neck on the line with this contract,” proffers Kenny.
Born in Castlebar, Kenny was only 24 when he was elected to the Dáil in a by-election caused by the death of his father in 1975. In 1986, hr became Minister of State at the Department of Education and Labour; he then went on the serve in a number of positions on the party’s front bench, including a stint as Fine Gael Chief Whip.
Kenny is married to Fionnuala O’Kelly – who worked as a press officer for Fianna Fáil in Leinster House – and they have three children...

JASON O’TOOLE: How did you come up with your “contract” for the Irish electorate?
ENDA KENNY: For years in this country nobody has accepted any political responsibility for their actions. Ask a question in the Dáil about midwives that are needed in Drogheda now, you get an answer that comes back from the HSC six months later, or whatever. I just felt it was about time that somebody said, ‘Look, I’ll stand out in front and I’ll take responsibility for my actions – if you give me a contract, I’ll honour it. I know that Gingrich did the contract in America before but, in this case – from an Irish point of view – nobody has ever stood up and said, ‘Look, you give me the mandate, I’ll implement it, and if for some reason I don’t, I will not be back to you to re-appoint me as Taoiseach.’ So we set out 14 points in it and they are all realisable. If you get the people’s mandate, you then have the authority of government to say, ‘That’s the contract; we are now going to implement it – starting from day one'. It is not just an aimless list of promises that end up in dried sand.
Did you consult with Labour before unveiling your contract?
Some of that contract – for instance, the 2,300 acute beds – is an absolute priority, and that’s something we worked out with Labour in agreement that we would provide, over that period, a seven year period. So, I didn’t talk to the Labour party formally before I did that. I did say to Pat Rabbitte, before the Ard Fheis, that I wasn’t going down the road of prolificacy in terms of election promises, because the week before Fianna Fáil had their Ard Fheis and there was a long list of 53 promises and commitments. So I made just one – give me the mandate and I will honour it. If I don’t honour it, I won’t be back.
The Minister for Children, Brian Lenihan, claimed there was “no reference to pensions, the elderly or jobs, or competitiveness, or farming, or public transport – all crucial issues for Ireland.”
That’s a political response from Brian Lenihan. He comes from a party that has broken every promise it made in the last number of years. We have a programme for government around the core elements – both of my contract and Pat Rabbitte’s particular requirements. All of the others – the farmers and the elderly people – are part of the normal programme for government. I didn’t set out to include a full programme of government in my contract.
Would you go into coalition with Sinn Fein?
No. We will not be sharing power with Sinn Fein. I have given credit to Sinn Fein for the leadership they have shown in Northern Ireland, with de-commissioning, and all of that. I am glad they now accept peace and get on with the assembly. Obviously, there are things here that are not cleared up at all – the consequences of the Northern Ireland bank raid, the murder of Joseph Rafferty here in Dublin, and all of these things. Sinn Fein is an elected party here; their representatives are entitled to be elected by the people – but not for me.
What about Fianna Fáil?
That may happen down the line, but not just now. Obviously, Fine Gael were in government with the Labour Party in the ‘70s, the ‘80s and the ‘90s – and we are going to be in government with them again shortly. They are our natural allies over the four decades.
What about the Greens?
I was asked the question before – which would be my preference after the elections, the Greens or the PDs? – and I said the Greens, because the PDs set out to be an independent party going into the election and then married themselves to Fianna Fáil. I think there is a great measure of disappointment, particularly at the Tánaiste, who seems to have changed direction in aligning the PDs up completely with Fianna Fáil. They have made their decision and are contesting the election with Fianna Fáil – and that’s it. They are in trouble in a number of constituencies – absolutely.
Is there not a danger that, in partnership with Labour and the Greens, Fine Gael will end up pursuing policies completely inimical to what the basic Fine Gael membership expects.
The green issue hasn’t just become important because of the Green Party. All of this is related to the Stern report, Al Gore’s business, the United Nations report – climate change in general. We set out very clear policy positions about fuels and bio energy, incentives for farmers to get energy producing crops; abolition of excess duty on bio diesel; lower VRT for more fuel efficient vehicles, and all of that kind of thing. So, I wouldn’t foresee any great, complex issues in there on the Green agenda. But the Green party themselves have said: ‘We are going into the elections as an independent group – and we’ll decide afterwards.’ And I respect that decision.
If you have to take in a couple of independent TDs to make up the numbers, would you accept Beverly Flynn?
Everybody would have to be elected first of all. She’s an independent woman, she’s a very bright person, and she’s a hard worker. I hope that Fine Gael would get at least three seats there. Obviously, if you have a Taoiseach from the West of Ireland, I think her leanings would be favourable towards her own part of the country.
Are you for mandatory sentences in the way they have been introduced by Michael McDowell?
You have mandatory sentence for drugs at the moment, but it hasn’t actually worked the way the politicians set up to do it, at all. McDowell is actually guilty of a knee jerk reaction – suffering from, I think, desperation in the last couple of months. We had, from him, occasions where all crime was expected to stop and, in fact, it has got worse – rape, serious crime, assault, robbery, armed robbery, murder. The thing about sentences is, in the case of serious crime, before a decision is handed down, somebody should be able to speak for the people in court, and we will see the Oireachtas setting out a tariff for categories of crime – homicide, rape, assault – and that in respect to the independence of the judge, if the judge either goes above that sentence or below that sentence, that they should explain themselves in open court to the reasons why.
But should the judiciary have the discretion to take circumstances into account?
When the judge hands down the sentence from the bench, of course they should be able to take these things into account, but, at the same time, somebody has to be able to speak for the people before a decision is handed down in a serious case. Look at the case of Mary Shannon, in Clare, that courageous woman who was raped, and the suspended sentence given for the perpetrator and no explanation given in court. We will see that business of sentences being very much clearer and set out those categories for those crimes.
How about arming the police?
No. We have looked at the question of setting up a serious squad dealing with serious assault and gangland crime. We haven’t looked at the question at all of arming the police. We have looked at getting Gardaí who are doing administrative duties out on the beat. Of changing the roster for Gardaí and, while the Commissioner would maintain the day-to-day management business, there would be much more flexibility interacting with local authorities and community leaders, so that (they can ask), ‘When do you want to see the Gardaí? At two o’clock in the evening or two o’clock in the morning?’ We held about 60 meetings around the whole country and the clear issue out of all that wasn’t just about anti-social behaviour or about facilities – it was that people want to see Gardaí in their communities.
You have been cultivating what people call a Presidential style. Are you not concerned that Irish voters are too cynical to buy into that?
I haven’t been cultivating any presidential style! A lot of stuff focuses on the leader of any party. In this case, with the leader of opposition, you have to compete with the aura of government that surrounds the Taoiseach. I am not a president – I am an elected TD from County Mayo, contesting, as leader of the party, to be the alternative Taoiseach. There has been a change in politics, you get formatted into things you must do/mustn’t do. I like to think that you stand by your word and honour it – so, if they call that presidential, fair enough. You have to be in reasonably good shape, you have to have energy to get around the country, you have to be able to mix with all sectors of society, and people expect you to look as best you can. I don’t have any airs or graces about that. We are real people and we live in a real world.
A lot of people feel that you’re coat-tailing the memory of JFK in a way that is just a bit odd?
Who could coat-tail on JFK? I think he was the first international statesman that appealed to me, as a young fellow, because of – how will I put it – the ringing clarity of his voice. Some of the stuff that he said in 1961 up to ’63 is obviously still as relevant today as it was then. The world is a very different place now and man still holds in his hands the ability to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. Far be it for me to try and coat-tail on the illustrious JFK.
You have a new hair-do. Pat Rabbittee told me he reckons you should have stuck with your old hairstyle.
You get people shouting to you around the country – ‘Leave it the way it was,’ or ‘I love this’. It’s my own hair, (puts finger through his hair), it is still growing, and there is no colour in it. The woman who cuts my hair told me: ‘Your hair is the wrong shape for the way you comb it. I am going to change it.’ I said fine. I haven’t had any makeover. I changed the way the front of my hair is and fine if that’s all they have to talk about.
Politically, who do you most admire?
Bill Clinton was a politician who had an aura about him that was incredible. His timing and his delivery and his ability to understand complex issues like Northern Ireland – some of the speeches he gave there were absolutely brilliant.
Your father was a TD from 1954 until 1975. I am sure he would be very proud to see you as Taoiseach.
I am sure he would. He was a man who really had a great understanding of human nature. I think people in his years in the Dáil made an agreement and stuck by it.
He represented the old South Mayo and then later West Mayo for 21 years and he died of cancer in 1975. My mother is still alive and well, but I am sure (pauses)… I don’t know what he’d say. I am sure he would be proud, but he wouldn’t be the kind of person who would say that. I was reared in a house where he was gone most of the time trying to conduct the politics of the day, but I thing he did leave two legacies to me politically – one was that you work hard and the second was that you stand by your word.
Bertie Ahern – what is your assessment of him?
Undoubtedly, the Taoiseach has worked hard at his job, but I think I could work equally as hard – but far more effectively. Indecisiveness and incompetence are the legacy of 10 years (in government) when you could be so much further down the road, in a time of unprecedented economic boom.
Fianna Fáil are claiming that your party are carrying out a dirty tricks campaign – particularly with the recent stories being leaked to the press about Bertie bringing a suitcase of cash to Manchester.
These allegations were submitted to the tribunal in the year 2000 and that is a matter for the tribunal. If they want to deal with it, they will decide how to deal with it in their own way. As far as I am concerned, I have no wish at all – and I can give Bertie Ahern one guarantee, there will be no descent into sleaze politics with me as leader of Fine Gael. We will fight the election on the issues that are before the people – health, crime, value for money, and taxation. That is going to be a hard political battle but, for me, it will be a fair battle.
What do you think of Bono?
I think that he is better known than I am (laughs). He is not God yet! But he has had accesses to the halls of power that probably I will never see! I will tell you that the U2 concert in Croke Park was fabulous. He is a brilliant performer and U2 are an outstanding band for so many years now. He has brought a new dimension to a superstar in terms of music – bringing a serious social issue to the world stage, and his intervention at the G7 summit, making the money available to places in Africa, are all very important. That’s humanities work. I think he has done a great job – and his wife, indeed.
Would you meet the 0.7% of GNP target, for aid to developing nations?
We have made the point that we would legislate for the 0.7%. It is a big draw on the exchequer, but it is an important draw. I think you need to parallel that with a system of absolute accountability, so that instead of pouring money down a black hole, in some other country for charitable works, you need to see how it is being spent in the interest of those people.
Is it OK for the US to use Shannon Airport to transport troops to wage war in Iraq?
Fine Gael voted against the use of Shannon when the Iraqi war started because there wasn’t a second UN declaration there. We were very clear on that. We made the case in the house here to the American ambassador that we just couldn’t stand for rendition flights under any circumstances. You know, in the situation in the open skies policy in terms of civilian transport is coming into being, that holds enormous potential both ways for Ireland/Europe and for American/Ireland, and I have been out there in the States a few times and, from an economic perspective, the chief executives still see Ireland as a big platform for entering into Europe and we should be able to build on that.
What are your thoughts on the Shell To Sea campaign?
I think it (the gas) should be brought ashore in regard to the environment and safety for human life. It will provide 25% of Ireland’s natural energy for the next 25 years. Lessons have been learnt here – the company, the local authority, the government should consult these things fully from the beginning. Probably, if they were starting now they would have done things differently. I hope it can be concluded successfully.
In a recent edition of hotpress, Dr Jerry Cowley TD stated that he, along with others on the Shell To Sea campaign, is having his phones tapped.
I will tell you something, if Jerry Cowley’s phone is being tapped whoever authorized that would want his head examined.
He’s suggesting the Minister for Justice.
Well, you know, Jerry Cowley gets up there in the Dáil and he raises Section 31 and he goes down and tells the people that he has raised this matter in the Dáil which is very fundamentally important. That would be the greatest waste of all of public time listening to Jerry Cowley’s phone conversations.
With Enda Kenny as Taoiseach, would you leave the Leaving Cert points system the way it is?
The Leaving Cert is a valid test of ability – how you do it is always a point of debate. But the young people doing the Leaving Cert this year now face challenges that we never faced. It is always a case of curriculum content changing – in science and physics and mathematics are always important for bankers and the pharmaceutical industry. So it is as much content and ability to give a well rounded Leaving Cert that is very important, so that when they either stay here, or leave here, they leave with what I call confidence and competence. I was in a school yesterday and I said, ‘How many of you have votes here doing the Leaving Cert?’ and there were 20 hands that went up in a class of 30.
You have said you would introduce random drug testing in schools.
Yes, we did – where you would get agreement from the board of management, from the parents, teachers, and the pupils. That doesn’t mean taking swabs off everybody. There is a very sophisticated way of doing this now with internationally accepted norms – where they go in and dust desks and computers and find out the scale of drug abuse. It is as much to say, for young people, ‘Look we don’t do drugs in our school'. Where this has happened before – particularly in the States and London – class results have gone up. There is a defence for every pupil in there and it has been extremely successful, but it is purely on a voluntary basis, it wouldn’t be anyway mandatory – it is where they agree to do it.
If random drug testing in schools, why not in universities?
Well, the same could apply to universities, which would probably have a much broader range there. I think it is important to catch this as early as possible, in secondary schools or places where young people are very vulnerable from peer pressure and all the rest of it. As I say, it is a voluntary proposal where there would be agreement to do it. It doesn’t involve taking swabs or urine samples or anything like that.
Why not on the streets?
Well, I know a woman who got up in a meeting and she said, ‘My daughter walks through 11 drug pushers every morning when she goes to school – and they are being offered these things on the streets, and all the rest of it'. And in some cases, young children have been forced to carry drugs from one end of the city to the other.
We all know people who have used drugs. Surely it’d be far better to frame policies on the understanding that the vast majority of people who experiment with drugs come to no harm at all?
Many of them do, unfortunately, get straight into harder drugs. I think, you know, that if you take that line, you send out the word internationally: ‘This is a haven for soft drugs and everything else that comes along with it.’ You could have invasions from all over the world, saying: ‘Ireland is the place you can go if you want to do your drugs’ – whether they be soft or whether they be hard. Who distinguishes between these things? The government can’t distinguish these things. The government have failed to deal with it as it is. We would move on to (this and) the next generation would be on crack cocaine. I disagree with the Taoiseach completely here – he says this is not a problem. And let me tell him that it in every town and parish throughout the country, they tell me in small places all over Ireland that you won’t have very far to go to find what it is you are looking for. So drug testing in schools is a real information campaign to say this is what you’re at. Michael McDowell plagiarised my speech, out there in Rathmines, by saying, ‘Those who snort the white powder are assisting in gangland killings'.
Did you ever try marijuana yourself?
No. Bill Clinton never inhaled it, but I never tried it.
Do you agree with Niamh Breathnach’s decision to abandon university fees?
We supported that very strongly because it was costing six or seven thousand pounds, at the time, for every third level business. I wouldn’t bring that back – the fees. I would not. What we did say in our document today, the issue of universities being able to raise bonds and issue bonds from research and development institutes – it will be much more favourably (geared) towards public or private enterprise to invest in them.
What do you think of the Gardaí setting up speed checks on the Naas Road or the Donnybrook dual carriageway?
I think what you need here is common sense. You need high visibility – people need to know the Gardaí are around. But this business of having Gardaí behind hedges, behind gateposts, catching people going 30 miles an hour on a Sunday morning is not the way to do business. People need to know what the rules and regulations are – and get on with it.
What do you think of the clampers do-ing people on suburban roads, in places like Ranelagh, at quarter to midnight on a Thursday night?
It has had the effect of moving people on. I have been clamped myself on a number of occasions. It is not a very nice prospect. I did see a wheel one day on its own with the clamp around it! He got away.
What about the campaign of harassment being waged by Gardaí in relation to people who legitimately under the law have a drink, or maybe two with a meal, and find themselves being treated as if they are criminals?
Ah, listen we have had over 400 people killed last year. You can’t just mess around with this. I have made the point that when patrons go into a public house by choice the owner has a responsibility, in part, for him to get home. I would see letting them write off the cost of the vehicles against the business to enable them to do that. But you just can’t mess around with this.
Would you curb the pointless junkets on St Patrick’s Day?
It is not a waste of money – no. There are very few countries that can actually say they have their own day – Bastille, 4th of July, St Patrick’s Day. As long as they go out and do business on behalf of the country – keeping our best elements to the front – I think that’s great. You would want to go out there and appreciate just how the others see us, and you take the time and make the effort to go out there, even though people might say these are junkets.
Fine Gael prides itself on being a party that supports equality. Same sex marriage is now available in Northern Ireland, so would you consider introducing it down here?
No, I don’t favour same sex marriage. We were the first party down here to produce a document on civil unions and registration of civil unions, and to deal with tax and hereditary property and all of all – that’s as far as we went.
Will it be introduce within the first five years of your government?
I think we will wait and see how the registration of civil unions would operate in practise, first of all. I think they are going to have some serious cases were succession rates, property rates, and taxation issues have to be dealt with. I don’t favour same sex marriages.
Would your government look at legalising abortion?
I don’t favour abortion. Obviously, I am aware that people travel to other countries for abortion. I would try to make as serious a case as possible in advising young people, informing young people, and educating young people about these matters.
Do you believe there is a God?
Well, I am a Catholic and I am a Christian. I wouldn’t be the best Catholic in the world – I am probably a better Christian than a Catholic! I will go to mass on Sunday mornings in Castlebar at 10 o’clock, if I am around. I do believe there is something out there. Whether you go from spirituality to God, I think I will probably end up on somebody’s lap sooner or later!
Is there a heaven and hell?
I don’t think there is a heaven in that sense – there is probably a state of being, a state of mind. I must say, if you are out at night and you look up at a clear night, you know, I just find it very difficult to get my head around infinity in the scale of things. There is a photograph in Al Gore’s book, taken from four billion miles out in space, and it shows a massive serious of specs, which are stars, and there is one blue pixel on the right hand side and on it says, ‘On this pixel every incident in human history was recorded.’ I am not Mr Hawkins, I just find it difficult that you can go through this thing forever – that there is no end to it. It is just mind blowing.
In both entertainment and sport, ticket touting is a major problem at the moment. What would you do to combat it?
I support them (hotpress). I support the abolition of this thing. We produced a private members bill on this, here in the Dáil, to deal with ticket touting. When you walk into Croker, there for a rugby match or football or whatever, and see tickets on sale for really exorbitant prices – that’s not the way it should be.
Do you have an iPod?
My daughter has a Creative Zen. I see her using that and downloading things. I have a Blackberry and I am able to do my emails on it. I read my emails and I use it as a phone, and other little bits and pieces. I have my CDs in the car and at home.
What type of music do you like?
The Boss! I was down in The Point to see The Seeger Sessions – he blew the roof off. 18 musicians, it was absolutely brilliant. When all the musicians came on the stage, one after the other, it was like New Orleans gone wild. And his sessions out in the RDS and that. His social comment is so strong. There is absolutely no messing here, this is real talk from a real player.
Do you have most of his albums?
I have, Jason. Born In The USA was a brilliant album. I just love the rawness of that. I like The Seeger Sessions, Devils And Dust, but I think the one for me is The Seeger Sessions.
Do you prefer him with the E Street band or his later material?
It was a while ago with the E Street Band, when Clarence came on with the old sax it was something else. It is a different time. ‘Born In The USA’ or ‘Come On Up For The Rising’ just gets me in here (points to his heart). I think he is absolutely brilliant. I think I might invite him to the next Ard Fheis (laughs heartily)!
What other type of music do you like?
I was a big fan of Elvis. Rock ‘n’ Roll stuff. I really go through a whole range – some songs make an impression on me, whether it be ‘Waltzing Matilda’, or country and western is always good. But The Boss is my man.
Who is your favourite sex symbol?
Am I supposed to start this by saying my wife? (Laughs.) Well, I suppose, I mean Marilyn Monroe would have to be in there, wouldn’t she?
You’ve been photographed with more than a few models recently – who’s your favourite…
I don’t think I have had many photographs with too many models recently. They are all very fine people. I went to those fashion shows in the Ministry for Trade days, they work bloody hard at that business.
Have you been following the Irish soccer team?
I was talking to a some of the people involved in this and there are a couple of very good young fellas – 16, 17, 18 – coming through here and it is probably going to take three years before we have a real squad that can compete, I think, within Europe – whether Steve Staunton lasts that long or not is (pauses)… I hope he makes it. It is a daunting prospect really. I saw (Manchester) United play – who did they beat 7-0 recently? – and there was a point made by Johnny Giles that here was a team that was making a commitment to tackling back and all the rest of it. I hope Staunton makes it and these young fellas make their way through. One of them is actually David Joyce from Castlebar. A brilliant community games young fellow. He captained the Irish under 16s and is with Birmingham City. It will be interesting to see how they make their way. People always want a superior manager – someone like Benitez – that is going to lead them on. Let’s hope this squad works for him, anyway.
Are you a Gaelic fan?
I am. Gaelic was in my household. It was our upbringing. My father played for Mayo in the ’30s and ’40s. He won six leagues in a row, All Ireland medals. My father-in-law played for Kerry. I love sport outside – cycling, hill walking, tennis, swimming, all these things.
When you step out of the political arena, what are you going to do?
I think I would like to travel to a lot of places. I have a hankering to go to some places around the world. I would like to go to the Rockies, I would like to go to New Zealand. I think I would like to do that – and read. Maybe write something. I have a lot of stuff in my head actually.
Will you step down as party leader if Fine Gael do badly in the election?
Fine Gael won’t do badly in the election. The worst case scenario happened in 2002. I am a complete optimist here. I have a sense of self-belief that is unshakable now. I can feel the vibration around the country – people want a change this time. I believe we are going to win. I wouldn’t contemplate anything else.
You are spending a lot of time canvassing for this election. You must be exhausted?
I know my stamina levels and my energy levels and, generally for summers, I get into really good shape. But you do get a kind of adrenalin kind of stream here. But I am doing 18 and 20 hours days on a regular basis, because as leader of the opposition you don’t have that surround of protocol – you’ve got to make those choices yourself. You have to make the breakthrough (and) touch people in a different way. The hard part is in becoming the Taoiseach, the easy part is in being the Taoiseach. Any of those in that office will say to you that they had more time to spend when the were Taoiseach, as distinct from when they were minister or whatever else. The lousiest job in politics is leader of the opposition – because you are against the wind, the rain, and the hill and everything else.
What legacy do you want to leave behind?
For my part, I want to put my piece in the jigsaw, to build a better Ireland. To sort out the health problem. Give people value for money. Reform the public service so that people have a real interest in doing their jobs to the best of their ability. I would like to send young people out from schools able to be competent and confident on any stage they stand on – because that’s an investment in the future. And long after I am gone out of politics – as Peter O’Toole said in ‘Goodbye Mr Chips’ when the class were leaving – ‘Each one of you are leaving here with a little piece of me.’