David O'Leary

It may have produced some of the most cultured players in the Premiership, but aesthetically Leeds United's Thorp Arch Grange training academy looks like a prison.

Set against the bleak backdrop of the Yorkshire Moors, its high walls and razor wire perimeter fence can't be of much consolation to Lee Bowyer and Jonathan Woodgate as they journey to Hull every day for their court case… Hang on, this is a prison.

Not as au fait with the countryside round Leeds as he might be, my taxi driver has taken me to HMP Wealstun which is home to over 1,000 breakers of the law. Thorp Arch Grange is a mile down the road, and the sort of place that you'd happily spend 10 years of your life banged up in.

Bought at Howard Wilkinson's insistence, it's symbolic of Leeds' desire to move away from the mud 'n' guts of yore, and match the likes of AC Milan and Barcelona in the sophistication department.

Not that there's anything sophisticated about the bollocking which is being administered to an apprentice who turned up late for this morning's 5-a-side. Modern motivational techniques are all very well and fine, but there are still times when the best way to deal with a rookie is to give them the Sgt. Major treatment.

The air of rural calm is restored when you step into the 19th century mansion that now houses the club's admin. Having been away last night to Everton in the Premiership, most of the senior players are still snoring away in bed. The exceptions are the ones who've volunteered for media duties.

"There are certain promotional things they're obliged to do, but other than that it's up to them who they talk to," reveals a blazered press officer. "It varies from player to player. Robbie Keane, for instance, only tends to do stuff that's organised through his agent, whereas Rio Ferdinand is very accessible."

Right on cue, the £18 million man walks by doing that champion racehorse impression of his. I'm not one who's given to homoeroticism, but those long legs and perfect muscle tone fair send a shiver down the spine. The same's true of Mark Viduka and Lucas Radebe, who both look a foot taller in the flesh than they do on the telly. Indeed, if either of them tires of the beautiful game, a job in the NBA awaits.

Despite their efforts to appear relaxed, it's obvious that everybody associated with Leeds United is on tenterhooks waiting for the outcome of what's simply referred to as "the trial". Adhering to the principle that they're innocent until proven guilty, the club has given Bowyer and Woodgate the necessary support to keep playing football. Last night that entailed flying them from Hull to Liverpool in a private helicopter.

"It hasn't been easy," David O'Leary acknowledges. "You come in with plans to do this and that in training, only to find that you can't because one of your key players is talking to his lawyer. It's even more disruptive now with Lee and Jonathan obliged to be in court every day. There are others (Michael Duberry and Tony Hackworth) involved as well, so I'd be lying if I said it hadn't affected our performance on the pitch."

Despite insisting that he didn't want the job, O'Leary's first two years in charge at Leeds have been spectacularly successful. Wilko may have been the gaffer when they won the league in '92, but it's the Irishman who's got them playing the sort of football that humbled Lazio and demolished Anderlecht this season in the Champion's League.

It hasn't all been plain sailing, though, with the capture of Ferdinand and Keane - a relative snip at £12 million - failing to deliver the desired consistency. The slayers of Serie A opposition one week, and 3-1 losers to Leicester City the next, it's been a frustrating season for the team and the man who picks them.

STUART CLARK: How do you explain that sort of fluctuation in results?

DAVID O'LEARY: It's impossible to quantify in terms of points, but I definitely think that the court case has had a bearing on our form. You do your best to remain focussed on Saturday's game, but when so much is happening behind the scenes, it's impossible not to be distracted. When those 90 minutes almost become an afterthought, you've got problems. On top of that, we've a lot of young players who are still learning about life in the Premiership, and four or five new signings who've had to adapt to how we do things here. The consolation for me - and hopefully for the fans - is that every time we experience a setback, we learn from it. Our league position may say different, but I believe we're a better side than we were 12 months ago.

Are you surprised that the Premiership's already over as a meaningful contest?

Yeah. I always felt that Manchester United would win it, but for them to be 15 points ahead is a disgrace, really. Whatever about our own form - and I do think we've let ourselves down badly - Arsenal should be doing a lot better. I'm more surprised with their points tally, to be honest, than I am with Man United's. With the world-class players they have, you'd expect them to be in contention.

On the plus side, it must have been a wonderful feeling turning Lazio over in their own backyard.

Fantastic. We showed that night just how good we can be when everything comes together. Apart from the result, the experience our lads gained going somewhere like that, and winning, is phenomenal. If you can handle the Olympic Stadium in Rome, you can handle anywhere. My concern now is finishing high enough up the league so that we can do it all again next season.

What are the chances of Leeds navigating their way through to the final?

Realistically, not very good, but we'll give it a go. The important thing for me is that, Barcelona at the Nou Camp aside, we've taken on the best teams in Europe and competed. Even against Real Madrid, we didn't allow ourselves to be overawed.

Alan Hansen raised a lot of hackles recently when he said that the likes of Ipswich and Leicester are only doing as well as they are because the competition's so ropey. Fair comment?

I'd agree with him that a lot of the big teams are underachieving, but to say that Ipswich and Leicester are in the top half of the table by default is unfair to both George Burley and Peter Taylor. There's no doubt in my mind that, with their ability to organise and motivate sometimes quite ordinary players, they'll end up managing their respective countries. Ipswich, in particular, have shown that you can come up from the Nationwide and without spending millions and millions, hold your own.

By my reckoning, Ipswich could buy a whole replacement team with the £18 million you spent on Rio Ferdinand. Outstanding prospect that he is, is any international novice worth that sort of money?

If you want to beat Manchester United, you've got to spend obscene amounts. We may have one of the best youth set-ups in the country, but you can't pluck an 18 or 19-year-old out of the reserves and immediately expect them to turn in match-winning performances. I nominated Rio Ferdinand as a player who I felt could do that for us straight away, and the board set about seeing if he was available. The way it works here is that I don't get involved in financial dealings. It was the PLC Company who decided that the transfer system's going to stay in place, and how much they were prepared to pay West Ham. Him costing £18 million was irrelevant to me. I wanted Rio because he's a quality player who'll give us years of service, and they got him. End of story.

Do you think he'll figure in Sven Goran Eriksson's first England team?

I do. I hate to say this, but with all the great young players they have at their disposal, the next ten years could see England winning a major tournament.

If Rio Ferdinand's worth £18 million, what do you reckon the going rate for Joe Cole is?

(laughs) I don't know. If someone went looking for him now, and West Ham were prepared to sell, I imagine that we'd be looking at another British transfer record.

There's been a lot of speculation about you still owing Inter Milan money for Robbie Keane, and him returning to Italy at the end of the season. Is there a danger of that happening?

Not at all. We've signed him, he's here and he's going to stay. It's true that we've got to pay Inter the balance of the fee at the end of the season, but as long as we come up with the money, they've no claim on him. To suggest, as some papers have, that it's a loan agreement is completely wrong.

What does it say about the Premiership that he couldn't find the back of the net in Italy, but has been banging them in at will for Leeds?

Nothing, because he was never given a chance at Inter. He hardly played. The manager who'd brought him in was sacked before the start of the season, which meant that through no fault of his own Robbie was surplus to requirements. It's tough for a young lad like that to come back not knowing whether he'd have been a success or a failure. Personally, I think it would've been the former, and at some stage in his career he'll return to Italy and show everyone in Serie A what he's capable of.

Supremely talented or not, it did seem very early in his career to head abroad. Wouldn't he have been better off finishing his Premiership apprenticeship, and then going looking for lire?

You can never be 100% sure in football, but having seen the ease with which he made the step up from Wolves to Coventry, and then from Coventry to the Republic of Ireland, I think he had a good chance of succeeding in Italy. That said, the ideal time to go abroad is when you're older and have already won things.

Does not being involved in transfer negotiations mean that you have to forego the pleasure of dealing with agents?

(laughs) There are plenty of things besides money that agents want to talk to you about.

How do you rate them as a profession?

Not very highly. There are a few quality ones, but most couldn't give a monkey's about the player. They're only interested in themselves and how much their share of the transfer fee adds up to. The more moves a player makes, the better it is for them.

Isn't there something wrong with the game when even a bog standard pro expects to be paid five grand a week?

I'm all for the Roy Keanes and David Beckhams of this world earning as much as they can, because they're proven winners. You could pay them twice what they're on, and still be confident of getting your money's worth. The ones who are milking it are the average players who think it's enough just to turn up on Saturday afternoons.

You're constantly being talked about as a future Ireland manager. Do you want the job?

Yes, without a doubt. But not for a long time yet. Maybe when I get to about 50, or something like that. I'd love to manage my country when I finish club football, but first I want to establish Leeds as one of the top two or three teams in the Premiership, and win things.

What if you suddenly got a call from Old Trafford inviting you to take over from Alex Ferguson?

That sort of thing doesn't enter into my thinking. The only future I see in terms of the Premiership is with Leeds United.

People in Ireland would assume that the pinnacle of your playing career was Italia '90, but I've read interviews with you where it only gets the most cursory of mentions.

I was probably talking to an English journalist! No, the moments that stand out are needing to beat Liverpool at Anfield to win my first league championship, and getting the result; my first F.A. Cup Final when we beat Manchester United; and my last game for Arsenal when we beat Sheffield Wednesday in another Cup Final. I arrived at Highbury in May '73, and there I was 20 years later at Wembley going out on the most amazing high. I remember being in the dressing-room afterwards and not knowing whether I was crying tears of joy or sadness. Thinking about it now, it was probably a bit of both. Ireland-wise, yeah, it was great going to Italy and even better when that penalty went in. I often wonder how welcome I'd be there now if I'd missed!

Some of our younger readers might not be aware of this, but three years earlier you were excluded from the Ireland team after declining to attend a pre-season tournament in Iceland.

Jack was out of order. He banned me for three years, which meant that I missed out on the European Championships in Germany. I was playing what was probably the best club football of my life, but because he had the hump with me, I wasn't selected. Jack knows that I think his treatment of me was disgraceful. We're still friends, though, and buy each other a drink when we meet.

So there's no bitterness on your part?

Not going to Germany was, without doubt, the worst thing that happened to me during my career. The fact that I wasn't there when we beat England still hurts very badly. As does knowing that I lost out on 20 or 30 caps. Bitter is too strong a word, but yeah, there's some residual anger.

Talking of appearances, are you hoping

that the rumours are true and Tony

Adams defects to Fulham at the end of

the season?

No. I've said to Tony that if somebody has to break my Arsenal appearance record, I'd like it to be him. In the same way that George Armstrong was thrilled for me when I passed him out, I'll be delighted if he does. If he doesn't, the record will probably stand forever, because there won't be any more one-club players.

When you watch Ireland now, is it as a fan who wants them to win at any cost, or as a manager who flinches every time Robbie Keane's tackled?

I want my players to play international football, but it's a pain in the backside as well. More often than not you don't get them back till Friday, which means that they're tired and can't give you 100% the following day. If that causes you to get beat then, well, you have mixed feelings about them being called up.

Bearing in mind the conflict of interests you sometimes have, how do you get on with Mick McCarthy?

Mick McCarthy is very helpful when it comes to international football. He knows the pressures I'm under as a club manager, and acts accordingly. We've a mutual respect for each other, which helps us to get over our occasional differences, and I think he's doing a brilliant job for Ireland.

Judging by the to-do you had a few years ago, I imagine that you wouldn't be such a big fan of Brian Kerr's?

I didn't appreciate him acting the big man that time when he insisted on Stephen McPhail going to that (Under 20's) tournament (in Nigeria). I asked Brian, "If I'd have had six Irish lads and was going for a UEFA Cup place, would you still have taken them?" and he went "yes". And I thought, "Well, I know where you're coming from." Brian Kerr's job - supposedly - is to supply Mick McCarthy with players who are ready to make the step up to senior level. My argument was that, in terms of education, Stephen McPhail was far better off remaining in the Premiership.

So which should come first, club or country?

More than club or country, it's the player who should come first. Stephen McPhail was denied the thing he needed most at that time, which was Premiership experience. Of course I want to see Ireland doing well, but at the same time there needs to be a little common sense.

As one of the original Boys In Green, what do you make of Clinton Morrison saying, "If England really, really don't want me, I'll declare for Ireland."

I think the rules have been stretched too far, personally. When it gets to the great, great grannie stage, it's time for a rethink.

Were you surprised to discover that Tony Cascarino isn't even a little bit Irish?

Nothing surprises me in life anymore! I just wonder if it's being done for his book.

Have you been following the Eircom Park saga?

You do wonder, with the cost going up and up, whether it'll ever happen. I hope it does, because Ireland not having its own national football stadium is a disgrace. The playing surface at Lansdowne Road isn't good enough for international competition, and even though they've moderated their attitude towards "the foreign game", the GAA aren't going to do a u-turn and allow soccer at Croke Park.

Does it strike you as odd that, having generated so much revenue, Irish football has nothing tangible to show for its participation in four major tournaments?

It does, but then again, I don't know the ins and outs. What I will say is that given the amount of great players it's produced, and the fanatical support it's generated, the powers that be should have done more to provide Irish football with a proper home. This handing over money to the RFU every time we play a game is a complete nonsense.

Are you aware that you've just completed a sell-out run at Vicar St.?

I beg your pardon?

The Après Match lads have come up with a stage show, which naturally you're in.

(smiles) They do me very well, don't they? I'll have to see if I'm due any royalties.

Finally, I know you can't comment on the case itself, but what action will you take if Bowyer and Woodgate are found guilty of assault?

We've said all along that we'll wait for the outcome, and then take the appropriate action. I'm not prepared to go into what that might be right now, but we won't shirk our responsibilities.