There's Always Somebody Out To Get You...

Lucinda Creighton is a young woman in a hurry. The blonde Fine Gael TD arrives at Leinster House shortly after 5pm, a heavy stack of files underarm, and immediately informs your Hot Press correspondent, "I've got to be gone from here in 30 minutes."

When it's pointed out that half an hour probably isn't enough time for the interview, she shrugs, glances at her watch, and explains, "Sorry, but I've an important meeting after this. I'm just really busy today." Given the slight smile on her face as she says this, one suspects that actually she's just being wary.
Born in Claremorris, County Mayo, in 1980, Creighton is the youngest-serving member of the current Oireachtas and the first TD to be born in the 1980s (a distinction which has earned her the informal title "Baby of the Dáil"). Along with her slightly older colleague Leo Varadkar, she first became involved in Young Fine Gael while studying at Trinity.
Donnybrook-based Creighton was elected to Dublin City Council in 2004 to represent the Pembroke local electoral area. Having gained a degree in law, she was called to the Irish bar in 2005. She served on the City Council until 2007, when she was elected to Dáil Eireann as TD for Dublin South East. Despite rumours of a major row with party leader Enda Kenny last year, she remains Fine Gael's spokesperson on Foreign Affairs.
She tells me that she met Chris Patten, one of her big political heroes (along with Winston Churchill!), at a drinks reception in the British Embassy this morning, where various delegates watched the results of the UK elections coming in. Her important meeting temporarily forgotten, she stays talking for almost an hour.

OLAF TYARANSEN: You grew up in Mayo with your parents and sister. Was yours a Fine Gael family?
LUCINDA CREIGHTON: Probably Fine Gael voting, certainly not card-carrying members or anything like that. I wasn't politically indoctrinated, and there's no history of anybody in my family being involved in politics. It was a conventional Irish upbringing, I suppose.
What did your parents do?
Dad was a bookie. My Mum was a primary teacher. They're retired now.
So, what drew you into politics?
I always, from a very, very young age, had a big interest in politics. I used to read the papers, I used to watch the news. In my childhood, Charlie Haughey would have been a pretty major figure in Irish politics, and I didn't like him. I didn't like what I saw, so I suppose I was drawn to politics because I felt that this could be done better, it should be done better. And that sort of was the genesis of my interest. I had an interest in participating, not just sitting on the fence.
Haughey was gone by 1992, when you would have been 12. Are you saying you thought he was crooked by that age?
Oh yeah. It would have been a major topic of conversation in my household. I remember when Dessie O'Malley went into coalition with Haughey, and I remember being disgusted by it. So I probably had pretty advanced political views at a very young age, and I would have had a lot of time for the likes of Des O'Malley, the likes of Garrett FitzGerald.
You're qualified to work in law in the US. Do you think that the American judicial process is better than the Irish one, particularly dealing with white-collar crime?
I think that they have a longer culture, by necessity, of clamping down on white-collar crime. Whereas, it's something that maybe nobody has ever felt the need to do in this country until the recent banking crisis. Now everybody wants legislation to deal with the crooks and the people who are responsible for what has happened. Unfortunately, the horse has bolted. Still, we need to change how we do our business. I think I was the first person in the Dáil to call for the fraud squad to be called in to Anglo. And I was pleased to see that a file has being sent to the DPP about Mr Fitzpatrick. I don't know – maybe I'd be naïve to think that anything will come of that. I hope it does.
It only took a year!
Yeah. Everybody points to Bernie Madoff and says, 'Look how quick that whole process was.' He was literally embezzling money, whereas our crowd, unfortunately, were a bit cleverer, you know. They were shifting money around. But we have to hold people to account, and we have to let people see the letter of the law.
Does it bother you to be called the 'babe of the Dáil'?
Am I called 'the babe'?
Apologies – 'the baby of the Dáil'.
I couldn't care less, to be honest with you [laughs]. People can use those kind of terms as derogatory to put you down or whatever. It probably bothered me at the start, it doesn't any more. You develop very thick skin here, very quickly. You have to.
Is there much of a sisterly vibe amongst the women of the Dáil?
There can be. It depends. I suppose people gravitate to each other, male and female. And there are definitely people that I would consider to be mentors, and people who have been good to me from day one, and have kind of looked out for me, or given me little tips and that sort of thing. Some of them are men, some of them are female.
Are female politicians competitive?
Of course there's going to be a certain degree of rivalry. There's rivalry between all of us because everybody's competing. I mean, politics is about trying to get into a position where you can influence things, and that means jobs and promotions, and everybody is looking for a promotion of some sort. Everybody is in competition all the time.
In the days of Nuala Fennell and Monica Barnes, there would have been something of a feminist tradition within Fine Gael – that doesn't seem to be there now.
I think we are in a post-feminist era. I don't know any woman – well, no that's not true – I don't know too many women in politics who would brand themselves as being feminist. I certainly don't. I don't feel the need. I am a person, and I believe that I am as capable of succeeding as anybody else. I don't feel that I should be inhibited by my gender. Now, of course, not everybody looking at me will feel the same way, but that's their problem not mine. But I don't think that tag of 'feminism' is relevant anymore. Certainly there are still issues for women, and it's more difficult, clearly, for women in politics because there's so few, but I think there are ways and means of addressing that.
When Enda Kenny suggested a female quota being introduced, you voted against it.
Yeah. As did the majority of my parliamentary party, male and female.
You fell out with him over that, didn't you?
No, I didn't. I haven't fallen out with Enda Kenny, although people love to portray it in the press as though we've fallen out. We get on pretty well. I don't think I have fallen out with any of my colleagues because I have had a different view to them on a political issue. I mean, that's politics. You have to argue your point. And we have a lot of people with strong views, and not everybody is going to agree all the time. So there's no issue in terms of falling out with Enda Kenny. I had a different view. Anyway, it wasn't Enda Kenny's proposal, it was policy document proposed by Phil Hogan, our environment spokesman, and I just disagreed with that element of it, as did the majority of women in the party.
It was reported that you walked out in tears from a meeting with Kenny.
Well … [laughs]. That was inaccurate. No, I … [pauses]... look, there was an issue at a meeting, it was I think probably nearly a year-and-a-half ago at least now, and it was a parliamentary party meeting and I don't discuss the contents of parliamentary party meetings with the media. So people obviously chose to leak information – inaccurate information – and it was reported inaccurately in the press. And that's kind of it, really.
There's a perception that somebody within the party was out to get you.
Em… somebody within the party out to get me? I don't know. I don't know… it's politics, you know, there's always somebody out to get you!
When you have members of the same party are running in the same constituency, for what will probably be a maximum of one seat, that's not good for solidarity, is it?
Well, it has not been an issue for me because I've only run in one election and I ran on my own. And we have very good councillors in my area, we have a very nice team in Dublin South-East, so that has never been an issue. I have never had a clash with a colleague in my constituency. And again, I think that that's probably a Phoenix magazine spin on events that's just totally misinformed and has no bearing on reality.
How do you rate the Irish media generally?
How would I rate the Irish media? Oh God. Like, being honest, I think, like everything – and I would say the same about politics – I'm not pointing the finger at [the] media in particular – but I think that standards have slipped. We live in an age of soundbytes and quick-fix stories, and I think that the whole ethos of political journalism, and reporting, and analysis in particular, has almost completely been eroded. The culture seems to be now all about putting in Freedom of Information requests and hyping up stories that were – you know, the same story that was written last week is regurgitated two weeks later in another paper, and it seems to do a full circle. And politicians play the same game, and I don't like it. I don't like that kind of soundbyte politics. I resent it. And that's why I wouldn't like the legacy of Tony Blair in politics, and I don't like the legacy of Bertie Ahern because I think it was all about empty spin. And I think that the media have also bought into that whole culture. So it's a vicious circle. We are all to blame, in a way, because we have all played our part in it.
Explain Twitter to me. What's the point of it?
Oh, I really don't know. I don't know. I go through phases of it. It's a little bit addictive. Twitter is good for an interaction, I suppose. That's what I like about it, I suppose, is that you make a comment – what I would use it for most of the time is to link up to maybe a blog, or to a story, or to the speeches I've made in the Dáil, to kind of get people talking. And from that perspective, because it's instant – you write a 26 character viewpoint, a very short …
Soundbyte?
Soundbyte, yeah, or statement, or sentence, maybe directing people to something more substantive that you've said and then people might read it, and then they come back and comment. And you can have a conversation with people. I'm not very technical. I wouldn't be able to run my own website, for example, but I can cope with Twitter, so I think it's acceptable to ordinary people who aren't techies. And it is a good way to directly interact with people. Like even last night when the British election was on, I was getting information more quickly on Twitter then I was getting watching Sky News, so that was quite interesting.
Leo Varadkar recently told Hot Press that he wasn't in favour of a woman's right to choose an abortion. Would you share that viewpoint?
I would, yeah.
What about in the case of rape?
In the case of rape? I don't believe in abortion being available on demand at all. As a principle, I don't believe in abortion. I think, you know… how would you define it?
If you were raped, and became pregnant as a result, would you consider an abortion?
No, I wouldn't, no. I wouldn't [shakes head].
Are you a devout Catholic?
I wouldn't call myself devout. I am a Catholic. I try to live my life in a Christian fashion, whatever that means, by trying to be good, or be as good as I can, and do what I can to help people, and to look out for people, and from that sense I am certainly a Catholic and I am a Christian. I don't see myself as a fundamentalist or anything like that.
Well, do you believe in transubstantiation?
Yeah, I do. I do. I believe in the basic teachings of the Catholic Church. So yeah, I take Communion.
And you believe that that's the body and blood of Jesus Christ?
Yeah, yeah.
Really?
I do, yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah. That's what faith is about, I suppose. It's about believing things that are not... they're superhuman, in a sense.
Explain your concept of God.
Em, I don't know, I have never had to explain my concept of God. God is someone, somebody greater than me or any other human being on the Earth, who, I suppose protects and looks out, and looks down on us, and I find it very comforting to be able to pray and to have that faith and belief, and to have a sense of something greater and more important than me. That's really my sense of God. It's a personal thing, really. I don't have a hard and fast definition of what God is. I think it's different for everybody.
Do you think that homosexuality is sinful?
I don't. I don't, no.
Is that not in direct contradiction to the teachings of the Catholic Church?
Sure. I suppose probably a lot of things I do in my life are in direct contravention of the teachings of the Church. I mean, I don't pretend to be perfect. I don't believe that homosexuality is sinful. I have a lot of gay friends and I don't look down on them or judge them because of their sexuality. I think Christianity and Catholicism, for me, is about tolerance. It's about loving other people and doing everything in your power not to judge them. So, who am I to judge?
Do you go to Confession?
God, I couldn't tell you the last time I went to Confession. I have gone to Confession, but not for a long time.
You're the party spokesman on European Affairs. How many languages do you speak?
I speak a bit of German, a very little bit of French, and I speak English, and I speak Irish. But everybody speaks English. Every meeting I go to in Brussels, English is the spoken language. And if people want to speak in their native language they can, but it is translated into English anyway.
You criticised President McAleese's support for Turkey's EU membership bid. So you don't think Turkey should be allowed to join?
That's very much my view. I don't believe Turkey is European, geographically, or culturally. And I don't think that it would make any sense to enlarge the EU to bring in a country which will, realistically have a population of over 80 million people. It's not feasible. I think that Europe, as a concept, which I whole-heartedly support and believe in, must ultimately have some form of boundary. I believe in the Balkan States joining the European Union; I believe in the Caucuses joining the European Union. I don't believe in Russia joining the European Union; I don't believe in Turkey joining the European Union.
Do your objections to Turkish EU membership stem from the fact that it's a predominantly Muslim country?
No. Well, I suppose as per the treaties of the European Union, the union is based on what could be described as traditional Christian values – respect for human rights, equality, dignity of the human being, and all of that. So I suppose I would be concerned with the ability of Turkey to work with those basic values of the union. There's a huge amount of fundamentalism in Turkey – particularly in the rural parts of Turkey. So I would have concerns about that, but it's not the only reason.
Should sunbeds be banned?
I don't know. I don't really see the purpose in having them when they are clearly dangerous to people's health. Then, do we want to create a nanny-State? Clearly, smoking causes cancer: will we ban the sale of tobacco? I don't think so. Ultimately, it's a choice. I don't really see the need for the State to legislate, other than maybe to protect children under 18, where there's a duty of care, but any adult over 18 I don't really mind if they want to use a sun bed. Go ahead and use it.
Have you used one yourself?
No.
Would you consider cosmetic surgery?
No. Definitely not [laughs] My mother would kill me!
You got into trouble for speeding: what do you think of the recently introduced 30kph limit along the Dublin quays?
I don't agree with it. I think it's really ridiculous. 50kph is the normal city centre… I mean, that's what, 30 miles an hour? I don't see the need to impose a… and anyway, the traffic is so heavy on the quays nobody ever has the opportunity to go any faster than that anyway. It's ludicrous. A lot of the messing around with traffic in the city has been counter-productive.
There are lots of redbrick speed ramps in your constituency and others that must have cost a fortune, but are rapidly falling to bits. Is that not an awful waste of taxpayers' money?
Yeah, I suppose it is. I mean, I think – being honest about it – I can't tell you if I have ever been responsible for the introduction of ramps. I don't know if I have ever really seriously been lobbied for ramps. I think they were all built long before I was ever on the Council. And I think, in a huge majority of cases, people who wanted it initially regretted it afterwards [when] they found out they were damaging cars and all the rest of it. That means there's an awful lot of things that the City Council have wasted money on. Ramps are probably the least of those things, you know.
You criticised John Gormley on his proposal that the Dublin Mayor would have proper powers. Does Dublin need a Mayor?
I have always been an advocate for a directly-elected Mayor for Dublin, but I don't believe that we need a Mayor as well as a Lord Mayor and three Cathaoirleach of the County Councils. I think they should be abolished. There should be one directly-elected Mayor for Dublin. He or she should have a budget, should have revenue-raising powers, should have the City Manager accountable to them directly, and we should have half the number of councillors that we have currently.
Do you think we have too many TDs?
I do, yeah.
How many should we have?
I don't know. I don't have the perfect answer to that, but we should probably conduct some form of a review of the electoral system, and have a public forum. Allow people to make contributions, and also allow academics and experts in the field to compare and look at other jurisdictions. But my instinct, would be that we could easily go down to about 140 TDs which we had originally, possibly down to about 120. I would be a big advocate of single-seat constituencies. I don't believe in multi-seat constituencies. I would like to keep the single transferable vote and proportional representation. But I think multi-seat constituencies are counter-productive. It causes TDs to concentrate on local issues when they should be legislating. I wouldn't advocate just cutting the number of TDs without doing all the rest of it. I think you need to reform the government, you need to reform the Seanad, you need to reform all elements of our democracy, and I think to do one without the other would be a mistake.
Do you see yourself in the Cabinet if Fine Gael win the next election?
Probably not. I certainly would like to see myself in the cabinet at some point. That's somebody else's call. But I work very hard. I fully accept there are an awful lot of people in my parliamentary party who are capable and bright, and have been around a lot longer than I have, and I wouldn't expect that I have any right to leap-frog those people. But I hope that, in time, I will be considered, and seriously considered for a Cabinet post. That's my ambition, that's why I'm in politics. It's to change, to affect real change, and you don't do that either in opposition or in government backbenches.
Would you like to get married and start a family?
[Laughs] Ah, who knows? Who knows what's down the road, but I'm in no rush.
You're in a relationship with Senator Paul Bradford, who's 17 years older than you...
More like fifteen years older. I am, yeah.
Do you prefer older men?
Em… no, I just prefer men that I like [laughs]. I don't set out with any particular age in mind! It makes no odds to me, really.
Have you had many long-term relationships?
I've had a number. I've had a few, yeah. Not this long. Maybe that's a good sign, I don't know.
What are your thoughts on sex before marriage?
[Laughs] I think it's a private matter for whoever is involved. I certainly amn't going to judge anybody.
Do you think that headshops should be banned?
I certainly think they should be regulated. I haven't had any real direct experience with them, because there haven't really been any major controversies in my constituency. So I wouldn't pretend to be an expert in it. Catherine Byrne, our TD in Dublin South-Central, has been very involved. I think, her view, and I would share it, is that strong regulation is probably the best solution. Once you ban something you can get into all sorts of problem territory, whereas if it's regulated properly you can actually monitor it a lot better. In the context of those shops that would probably be the sensible thing.
Did you ever experiment with any illegal drugs in your youth?
Not that I know of. I certainly experimented with alcohol a lot sooner than I legally should have.
What's your take on the Hunky Dory ads?
I saw one today. I didn't really take any heed. There's so much advertising. Unless it's really clever, I don't really take much notice – they're not very clever. It's a bit '1980s risqué'. It's hardly risqué in 2010.
There's a massive hullabaloo about it.
I don't really think there's a big deal about it. I think Hunky Dory's could probably come up with a better advertising campaign.
So you don't find it offensive as a woman?
No, I don't. There's a lot of other things I consider offensive, but no, not the Hunky Dory ads.
What kind of things do you consider offensive?
Well, I don't know. Probably if you spent a day as a woman in politics you'd know what I mean. I can't think of any precise examples off the top of my head – comments that are often made would be a lot more offensive than a bust in an ad.
Are politicians not afraid of being seen as politically incorrect?
Only when cameras are rolling [laughs].
Is it very much a boys' club then?
Ah, it is. There's no doubt about that. I suppose most professions were at one time. However, these things can and do change. It's slow in politics because most women in their right mind wouldn't even dream of a career in politics. It's a very tough environment. It's very long days, long hours, arguably not a whole lot of reward, depending on how you look at it. You certainly need a kind of a vocation. So, for that reason there's a huge dominance of men, and inevitably it is a bit of a boys' club.
Did you feel sorry for Peter Robinson losing his seat in the UK elections this morning?
I felt very sorry for him. And I thought he was very gracious. I thought his speech was gracious, unlike some other speeches from other politicians in the North this morning. But I don't know anything about the Robinsons other than what I read and what I hear, but you have to have some bit of humanity and feel sorry for somebody who has spent virtually all of their adult life in public service of some description, and has obviously achieved some good things, and to have it pulled from under him in one fell swoop. It's the culmination of a very difficult six month period. I couldn't but have some sympathy for him.
Did you have any sympathy for John O'Donoghue or Willie O'Dea when they were forced to resign?
I did have sympathy for John O'Donoghue. He was a very good Ceann Comhairle. I thought his attitude to his expenses and all of the scandal that surrounded it – I thought it just displayed a complete lack of self-awareness and a complete removal from all sense of reality. So I did have some sympathy for him because he seemed so totally deluded. And he is a nice man. I wouldn't regard Willie O'Dea as being a nice man, so I wouldn't have a whole lot of sympathy for him. And he just lied bare-faced.
What's your opinion of Bertie Ahern?
Oh, Bertie Ahern, as far as I'm concerned is responsible for the country's economic crisis, the greatest in the history of the State. I mean … [shrugs]
If he was asked in an American court, "where did that money come from?" and replied "I won it on the horses," what would happen over there?
That would be considered contempt of court. Look, the tribunals were set up with incorrect terms of reference. They have never had any capacity to convict, or to even recommend conviction. I think that they're completely ineffectual. They deviated from the course that was originally set out for them, and it's really disappointing that all of that charade was carried out and yet we are not going to see any accountability. So I suppose it is like the banking thing. I do believe that Bertie Ahern, if found guilty of an offence, should be in prison. I don't believe that's going to happen.
How do you rate Brian Cowen?
I don't. I think Brian Cowen's entire career in politics has been built on sand. It has been built on bluster and on kind of bully-boy tactics as we saw before the last general election. He did it very effectively. He is convincing. He is a good debater, but I am not clear as to what he has ever achieved in any department, until maybe as Taoiseach, and that legacy isn't exactly one that will shine in the history books.
What would you like to be remembered for?
I'd like to be remembered for doing some good, certainly not for the opposite, but I suppose what matters most are your friends and your family, and how you treat them, and how important you are to them, and vice versa. And that's more important to me than anything.
Do friends and family treat you differently as your public profile grows?
No, my friends haven't a clue, they've no interest at all! They see me on the telly sometimes and then they just… you know, we go for a drink, it's no big deal. They just laugh about it.
What kind of music do you like?
I like lots of stuff. I'm a huge Leonard Cohen fan – like half the country now – but I've always been a Leonard Cohen fan. I'd love to go see him in Sligo, but I'm going to be away on my holidays. I'm so annoyed, because I went to see him last year in The Point, and the year before in Kilmainham.
Where are you going on your holidays?
To France.
You're not going to holiday in Ireland to give the economy a boost?
Well, I might, but I'm going to a wedding in France. It's a friend's wedding so I have no choice. And a bit of sunshine might be nice, especially if the forecast for the summer is accurate. So, yeah, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan. Tom Waits, Joni Mitchell.
Were you disappointed with George Lee's foray into politics?
I was. I thought it was very foolish of him. I really felt that he should have given it longer. I don't think that you can make an informed decision, or even have an informed view as to how you like politics, or how politics suits you, after a period of eight months. I found it very difficult for my first year. Really difficult. But you have a mandate. You have been honoured by the electorate. In his case it was huge, one of the highest votes in the history of the State, and I think that he had a duty to the people who voted for him, and the people who canvassed and campaigned for him, to at least give it a fair shot. And I don't believe that he gave it a fair shot. Now I know that he had his own issues and, I suppose, his own personal views to weigh up, and that's his entitlement. And I certainly wouldn't castigate him for that, but I was very disappointed.
Have you spoken to him since?
No. I saw him on the opposite side of Molesworth St. one day, that's all, but he didn't even see me.
Your dad was a bookie. Do you ever have a flutter yourself?
Oh yeah, I do. I'm not really a gambler because I always lose. And I don't enjoy it, but I love racing, and I love horses. And I have ridden horses all my life, and I'm into show-jumping. I'd go out to Leopardstown, and down to Punchestown, you know, whatever. Yeah, I love it.
Would you welcome a Papal visit to Ireland?
Oh I would, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I don't have any difficulty with the Pope. Last time he came to Ireland, I think it was great. I mean, I don't recall, I wasn't born in 1979, but I thought it was a good thing for the nation.
Actually, you're one of the so called 'Pope's children', aren't you?
Yeah, I suppose I am. But it was an amazing thing. Like, I'm a big believer in faith, and not just the Catholic faith, but all religions. I think religion is a really good thing, and I think it's really good for people to have an opportunity to express faith, and whatever. And, like, I am so disappointed with what has happened in the Catholic Church. I am so disgusted with so much of what has happened, and I just think it would be a really positive statement for the Pope to come here and to try to make amends for some of the abuses and the horrific things that have happened.
Surely he has questions to answer? The Catholic Church has been described as the biggest and the best organised paedophile ring in the world, and he is at the head of it…
Yeah, but that's to suggest that the Catholic Church is a paedophile ring, which it's not. There was an abnormally significant number of Catholic priests who were incessantly abusing children, and it is despicable. But, you know, if I go out to my parish church in Donnybrook, the priests out there are absolutely the most unbelievably generous, kind-spirited, salt-of-the-earth people. [They're] involved in the local schools, doing everything in the interests of children in the area. So, I mean, I know it was a large minority, but it was a minority. And the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church, and of course some responsibility lies with him, but I don't believe he's culpable. And I think that there's huge necessity for him to do more than he has done, and for all of the hierarchy of the Church to do so much more than they have done, to try in some way to make amends to the victims, or to the people who suffered at the hands of those priests. But I don't accept that the whole Catholic Church is a paedophile ring.
Did you laugh when Frank Fahey and Timmy Dooley both accidentally pressed the wrong button during an electronic vote the other day?
I did. Yeah, it was kind of strange. Fianna Fáil are very accident-prone at the moment. Like, that's the second tied vote that they've had. It's quite extraordinary, and there's been a lot of votes where they've been fumbling and chasing people into the chamber. They're very lax and it could catch up with them.
Do you think that there's a media witch-hunt going on right now as regards political salaries and pensions?
Well, it's an easy story. It goes back to my point about the lazy approach to journalism, the culture of getting the same story and re-hashing it, and repeating it. It's a lot easier than having to chase down a complex economic issue, or whatever. But at the same time there has to be a spotlight on it. I was, and remain an advocate of the vouched expenses system, which we have introduced now. On the ministerial pensions issue – I agree that nobody should be in receipt of a ministerial pension, but it's done now, so we need to move on. And, you know, I think that there's a little bit of an agenda to discredit all politicians, and to try and make out that we're all on the take. If I wanted to be on the take, I would have chosen a different career, because I'm never going to get rich out of politics, and I'm not in politics to get rich.
Although some politicians have become immensely rich.
Yeah, but an awful lot of them have done so through private business and through their own… like, an awful lot of people in here are independently wealthy.
Yeah, but some weren't before they went into politics.
Most of them were. And I can assure you that people like me probably wouldn't be able to get into politics were we not able to have an adequate salary. It just wouldn't be possible, because [of] the cost of campaigns. I mean, you can't stop people spending money. And it is hugely expensive. And there is a risk that we make politics the preserve of rich people only, which it used to be. The chamber in Leinster House must be representative of the people, and nobody should be excluded because they're not rich enough. I mean, okay, the likes of Charlie Haughey got rich from politics, but that's not because he was being paid a large salary, it's because he was on the take. That's a different issue. I can't speak for people in Leinster House. But certainly my perception is [that] I'm not aware or conscious of anybody on the take in political life in this country at the moment. I hope there aren't.
Do you think that private donations should be disallowed?
No, but it's regulated now. There are limits. You could argue that maybe the limits should be brought down. The limit is €5,000. I mean, the State can't afford to fund a political party. So, how else are you going to fund politics other than through private donations? And it is an important part of democracy that people – not everybody wants to go knock on a door; not everybody wants to out dropping leaflets, but they might want to support you financially. I don't see a problem with that. I think people should be entitled to financially support the political party of their choice, but within reason. Limits obviously must apply, and disclosure over a certain limit. If somebody donates over €626 to me, their name has to be published. So that's not an enormous amount. I think that's fair enough. And I think if someone wants to donate at a level lower than that, and do so in a private capacity, then that's fair enough too. They may not want it broadcast that they're making a donation to a political party or to an individual politician. I think people are entitled to some degree of privacy.
This notion of 'no favours sought or given' is complete bullshit, isn't it?
Certainly in the past it was. I think it has been cleaned up quite a lot in the last couple of years because of the donation limits, and they've only been in place for seven or eight years. And there's so much more public scrutiny now, there's so much… the Standards in Public Office (SIPO) didn't exist. Now it does, and it is a watchdog, and it has a responsibility. And if anybody has a suspicion or a complaint they can go immediately to SIPO and SIPO will conduct an investigation. So, every politician is conscious of that now. Every political party is conscious of that. Auditors can come in to party headquarters at any time. So, I think those days are over. When I was on the City Council, I never met a councillor on the take. Since I have been in the Dáil I have never seen anything untoward. So, my impression is that genuinely, the system has been cleaned up a lot.
Did you think the blasphemy laws were necessary?
No. I don't understand it at all. I think it's just a stunt on the part of Dermot Ahern, who said, I think, that he was going to have a constitutional referendum about it, but now it seems to have fallen off the agenda, which confirms my suspicions that it was merely a stunt.
And who was that stunt aimed at?
Well, I suppose, at a particular constituency in the Fianna Fáil party that he is trying to appeal to, because he wants to be leader.
Do you have a motto in life?
Work hard, play hard.