The Dealer: “Look, the cops might seize a big consignment this week, but that’ll be replaced next week”

Drug dealers are the stuff of media legend and hype. They are given funny names and regularly grace the front pages of the tabloids. Seldom, however, despite all of the column inches, are we offered a genuine insight into what they are like as individuals, how they think, why they do what they do – and, most importantly, how the drugs business really works.

Looking for an interview with a prominent drug dealer is not, as you’d imagine, a straightforward assignment.

It’s not as if you’ll find them listed in the Golden Pages. And even when you do finally connect with a major figure in the drugs underworld, it’s understandable that they’re not exactly gung-ho for coverage.

In fact, one famous drug dealer politely explained in a text message that he’d shoot me if I came anywhere remotely near him, looking for an interview!

Perhaps the nicest initial response I received was from the drugs baron who eventually agreed to be interviewed for this feature. When I first approached him via an intermediate contact, he simply asked: “Why the fuck would I want to talk with a journalist?”

It was a good question.

Undeterred, I pressed for the interview by pointing out that despite the drugs issue being the most significant topic in Irish society in recent times (well, apart from Bertie’s finances), there hasn’t been any significant input or commentary from the people who have the most sway in this area – the major drug suppliers themselves.

I expounded further by emphasising that, in our special Drugs Issue, Hot Press wanted to paint an accurate picture of the ever-increasing drug culture in this country. How could we achieve that if none of the key players in the drug trade was interviewed?

Satisfied that Hot Press had no ulterior motive and wouldn’t twist his words, the confirmed “major player in the drug business” agreed to do what turned out to be a very candid interview.

Getting the drug dealer to agree turned out to be the easier part. Given the number of gangland hits that have been taking place, it’s hardly surprising that our meeting had an element of cloak and dagger about it. I was informed that the interview would take place in a rural location. I was then given a day – and a schedule that could see me hanging around for up to six hours. I was waiting on tenterhooks when I got a message. Suddenly the meeting was pushed forward two days: if I wanted to do it I had to go here, at this time – today. I was then bounced around from one location and venue to another, until I finally stood, eyeball to eyeball, with the man.

I could tell that he wasn’t interested in hanging around, so we got straight down to business.

JASON O’TOOLE: What type of drugs do you mostly deal in?
DRUG DEALER: Everything – as in, cocaine, heroin, hash, crack cocaine, ecstasy. Anything that we can get our hands on, basically.

How are you smuggling them into the country?
Mostly on boats. Actually, some of it is being attached to underneath the boat. You know the way underneath the boat there is this air vacuum thing? A lot of it can come through that way. The coke would be about 90% pure when it comes into the country. It comes in from Amsterdam to Cork and then it goes to Drogheda and then Dublin. By the time it gets to us in Dublin it’s about 60% and then we do what we have to do with it. The coke would only be about 35% to 40% when it hits the streets.

Does it only come in from Amsterdam?
No. It comes in from absolutely everywhere, but the people I know bring it in through Amsterdam. Nobody will ever stop the drugs coming into this country – people in the trade will always find a way.

You are buying from Amsterdam, but where are the drugs originating from?
To be honest with you, even I don’t have the knowledge of that.

There has been a lot of cocaine related fatalities reported recently. Why do you think that is?
That’s very simple – because of what it’s being laced with. Because it is not really cocaine! When we are cutting down the coke, it’s not like we have specific rules and regulations about what you mix into it. There are no fucking health inspectors or a drugs ombudsman in the drug trade (laughs). We’ll put anything into it. Look, it can be even laced with heroin or ecstasy.

Why?

Because, believe it or not, it works out better for us. Ecstasy is cheaper, but while heroin might be a couple of grand more expensive to bring in, lacing the coke with it makes the punters addicted to the stuff much quicker. The cannabis is laced as well. It is being laced with everything, like diesel and speed.

Why dip cannabis in diesel?

It’s to get people involved in another drug as well. They way it works is like this: say you’re a dealer and I give you a ‘nine bar’ of cannabis dipped into diesel, you’ll then cut it up into quarters and ounces and so on to sell it on. You go out and sell it and the next batch I’ll give you will just be ordinary hash. It won’t have even half the effect of the first batch and the punters will be saying that they can’t get a good buzz out of it anymore. So, they’ll leave you and go try a different drug.

And what do you do with the ecstasy tablets?

Nothing – most of the time. But, saying that, some of it would be dipped with diesel as well. It makes people want to go onto the bigger drugs. E tablets fill you full of energy and have you bopping all night, but with diesel it just sets your head off (pauses)… and it is like three or four days before you come down off it. Mad stuff. The only difference with an E tablet is that it doesn’t come out of your system for five years. You can have flashbacks – just like with LSD.

Somebody told me that a bad batch of cocaine came into the country recently from Colombia. Apparently, this is one factor behind the surge of drug related deaths here.

Yes, that’s true. Definitely. The bad batch was being laced with heroin and E. It was taken in because it was gotten for almost next to nothing. They have laced it in such a way so people think it is proper cocaine. There is loads of that stuff out there still.

Why is wet cocaine out there on the market?

There’s batches of the wet cocaine that is lethal and there’s batches that is good. The dealers make it wet themselves. If there are people out there that we don’t like, they will be given the wet cocaine. It is the same with heroin. If there is people out there that does you over, you give them fucking rat poison. That is still going on. There is an awful lot of rat poison going around. Those two lads from Lithuania that overdosed on heroin the other day probably had rat poison in their gear.

Did drug dealers not think that all these deaths on the run up to Christmas would be bad for business?

No. I don’t know one drug dealer who even lost a night’s sleep over any of the recent deaths. There were no tears shed. In other words – and I’ll be brutally honest here – nobody in this business gives a fuck about somebody dying from taking their drugs.

What was your reaction to Katy French’s death?

I remember she was saying she didn’t do drugs, but they all say that. Look, if you want to talk about the Katy French incident – and I am speaking with a lot of inside knowledge about her death because I know who the dealers in this particular case are – you must remember that pure coke will kill you straight away. She got it off a top drug dealer. Basically, there was a mistake and the dealer didn’t know he’d been given pure coke. She took too much. Simple as that. End of story – and end of life.

Is it not unusual to get pure cocaine?

There is nothing unusual about it – it is definitely out there.

What was the reaction of those responsible for supplying Katy?

The dealers didn’t care. It was only a number to them. I don’t know if anybody was laughing about her death, per se, but it wasn’t like a major money spinner belonging to us had died. It was only one dead user. No big deal. You media guys only care because she was a model. People die all the time and it’s forgotten about the next day. It doesn’t affect our business. There will always be people out there looking for drugs. They all think they are indispensable – their attitude is, “I got this off a big drug dealer, so it must be safe. It must be good stuff." But it’s not – it’s getting laced with everything – or it’s too pure. Unfortunately, that is what happened to Katy French.

But immediately following her tragic death, there has been a lot of talk about the Garda coming down heavy on drug dealers.

Yeah, yeah, I read that bullshit. The guards never come down heavy on anything. Nobody is going to win this war on drugs – unless they take out all the suppliers, dealers and bent coppers. But that will never happen...

You are saying that there are corrupt members of the Gardai who are taking bribes from drug dealers?

There are plenty of bent cops and they’re making a fortune. We’ve got detectives on the inside to help us. You don’t need to be Einstein to figure out what department they’re in, but let’s just say that they are very high-up cops. They are fucking minting it. I know one high-up cop who is on five grand a week. So, as I said, I know a couple of bent coppers that won’t give a toss. As long as the money keeps coming into them, they’ll keep turning a blind eye to the likes of me.

But what about all these high profile drug seizures that are being reported?

(Laughs) You must realise that they do exaggerate about the amount of drugs seized. Even with the money that they seize, they don’t put out the right amount – they put out less. They pocket the rest. Look, there is nothing that can stop the drugs trade. So, OK, the cops might seize a big consignment this week, but that’ll be replaced within a week. As I said, there are too many corrupt coppers to bring down the major players.

How many big drug dealers are there operating in Ireland at the moment?

I would say that, apart from me, there are about another 12 to 15 major players in Ireland. We have warehouses all over to cut and slice up the heroin and cocaine and whatever tablets. As an industry, there are thousands working in the business.

Is it true that some of the biggest drug dealers are still running their empires from behind prison bars?

(Laughs) Yeah, you could definitely say that. But even if I name these people, I don’t suppose you’d be legally able to print their identities. Let’s just leave it there with that one, OK?

How much do you make in a week?

It all depends. The top is making about 65 grand a week. That’s his profit alone. That’s after he’s paid people to do the runs, cut and lace it, and whatever. So, I suppose you’d be looking at around 3million a year. A bag of coke is 50, which we’d get for about 8 or 9. So, you are talking 40-plus profit for each bag. If you buy a ‘Q’ of heroin, which is actually the size of me nail on my little finger, that is 25 on the street, but we’d pay 5 for it. Not bad, huh? (Laughs)

What is done with the money?

It obviously goes into different accounts, if that is your next question. Prior to the Veronica Guerin murder and CAB coming in, you had the likes of John Gilligan being able to buy that Equestrian Centre. But those days are long gone. You cannot show the trappings anymore. You can’t have stuff in your own name. You have to use other people’s names and have false IDs. It is very easy to get the false IDs. It is not hard to open bogus bank accounts. The banks and the cops want you to think it is (hard), but it’s not. Some might bring their money abroad and put it into property in Spain, or even these days in Bulgaria or Poland. Others would have five or six bank accounts in their sons’ names, their brothers’ names, whatever. And it is the same with the properties – even my own home is not in me own name.

It seems that a lot of drug dealers are spending time in Alicante, of all places.

It is like a little Dublin over there. It is a stupid place to go to because everybody knows where to go looking for them. Most of them over there think they are big boys, but they’re obviously not. There is a prisoner that just got out and went straight over there. He is actually in big trouble when he gets back. He is a puppet for one of the big dealers.

Are the paramilitaries involved in the drug trade?

Does a bear shit in the woods, pal? I would say that a lot of them are involved. They have a few of the major players.

What about Northern Ireland?

A completely different system. We don’t mix. It’s because they’re Brits. All the dealers in the Republic always say that a good protestant is a dead protestant (laughs).

I heard there are Nigerian drug gangs now operating in Ireland. Does this not upset the Irish drug gangs?

There has been a lot of people upsetting the Irish gangs during the last couple of years. I don’t really want to get into this, OK?

But why don’t we hear about gang wars between Irish and foreign national gangs?

The top drug dealers – or drug lords, whatever you want to call us – have a few of these foreigners working for us. Drug dealers would send their mothers out to deal if they could. We don’t care. It is only to get into their communities. I know some dealers who get a Pole to work for them, so he can get into the Polish market here. That is becoming a big market, believe it or believe it not. We’d deal with other nationals to tap into their communities. It is as simple as that. But all the people I know and do business with are not different nationalities – they are all actually from Dublin. The Nigerians can obviously get gear a lot cheaper, if they are bringing it in from Africa, than what we’d bring it in for. But they are mostly dealing within their own community. Have a look down there in Moore Street sometime – that’s all I’m saying (laughs).

What about the drug dealers from the Traveller community?

They deal a lot in everything – guns, trafficking, drugs. They go after anything once there is money involved. A couple of them have got in the way – and a couple of them, where their family just thinks they are gone on the run – are actually buried up the mountains. I am not saying that is exactly where they are – that is just a figure of speech.

And what about the drug gangs in Limerick?

The Limerick gang work very closely with (names two big Dublin-based dealers). They met up in prison. Again, the prison system is crap. You get more drugs inside the prison system than you’ll find outside. The prison system is corrupt. I mean, who the hell can get a widescreen TV and laptops into a prison cell without people knowing?

Why have there been so many gangland deaths in recent months?

It’s simply a case of one gang trying to overpower the other. You always have to watch your back, because there is always somebody out there wanting to take your patch. You either kill the fucker or be killed yourself. A lot of dealers are obviously using drugs themselves these days. I would say that 80% of the drug pushers or drug dealers, or whatever you want to call them, are using the gear themselves – the stupid fucks! Rather than making any money they are just using what they are given. Obviously, they’re keeping their own stuff separate – because they’re not going to risk their own lives by taking the horrible shit that is put out onto the street. And it is making them very paranoid, to put it mildly. So, it wouldn’t be unheard of for a dealer to be convinced that a rival is out to get him. So, he’ll jump the gun on the dealer and kill him first – even though there was no plan to touch him in the first place.

Are the deaths only as a result of these so-called ‘patch’ wars?

No. Sometimes there is absolutely no logical reason for getting hit. A lot of up-and-coming drug dealers are out of their faces on coke and, as a result, are completely paranoid fuckers. So, if they think you’d sold them out, they’ll want you dead. I know one guy who was killed because a dealer was convinced that he’d ratted him out. It was down to the fact that he’d been talking to someone two days prior to their getting arrested and in their paranoid state all of these people think, “Who was the last person you were talking to?” They put two and two together and come up with five and think it must have been whoever – just pick a name – that ratted them up. It doesn’t make any sense.

Let’s look at the John Daly incident. The papers are saying he was murdered because he brought the spotlight down on the prison system by calling the Liveline radio show from his prison cell. Is it that simple?

No – he fucked up with drugs. He was a bigger player than people think. And it wasn’t only that prison phone call that got him killed either. But, saying that, the phone call was very annoying. All the cells got raided. You are talking about disrupting all the top prisoners down there. Like Gilligan and Meehan. They don’t want anybody going in to snoop around their cells. But that’s not the main reason why he got murdered. The main reason was that he fucked up big time with a consignment of drugs for somebody else. You see, the paper doesn’t be told everything and whatever is printed is mostly bullshit. As far as I’m concerned, John Daly’s death was caused by the newspapers – and one journalist (names journalist in question) in particular. A lot of guys have been killed over what has been written in the paper by that fucking scumbag.

What is the ramification for couriers who are caught by the authorities with drugs?

It is your problem. It is your life on the line. That’s how it works. If you can’t pay up, I’d kill you stone dead. I’d order a hitman to end your days. The top dogs – the major players – never go out and kill themselves. It all depends on who we want dead. Just to show you how low dealers will go, years ago I knew someone who got his eyes taken out because he couldn’t clear a small debt of a few grand. It wasn’t just that – they thought he’d been talking as well. But if you owe even 250, somebody would kill you if they thought you were taking the piss.

It appears that the availability of guns has increased and that every drug dealer carries firearms now.

Look at the progression from the ’80s to now. It seems that every eejit has a fucking gun these days. A gun is easy to get. A lot of them are coming in from Thailand – the land of smiles (laughs). The big guns, like the AK47s, are mostly coming from that part of the world. But I would say that there’s also a substantial percentage – maybe 35% or 40% – of the guns are, believe it or not, coming in from America and those former Eastern Bloc countries.

Are most drug dealers not afraid of getting shot?

Not really. On one level everybody is afraid of getting shot, but on another level they’re not afraid because they all think they’re indispensable. For example, everybody knows who (names certain drug dealer) is when he walks the street, everybody knows what he does, everybody knows who he’s ratted on – but he walks the streets as if butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth, because he’s not afraid as he walks the streets with two bodyguards and everybody is afraid to touch him. Another dealer that I know is actually responsible for several murders, drives around as if there is no tomorrow. He has the attitude of ‘nobody’s going to touch me’ and the truth is he’s probably right. It is almost as if he’s daring people to have a go at him. But I am of the firm belief that what goes around does indeed come around. Whether it takes six months, six years, or sixty years, it’ll always come around. I am a true believer in that.

Are you afraid?

Oh, yeah. I’ll only say it here because I’ll be anonymous in this interview. I know I might look like a hard guy to you – and I am, cos I won’t take shit from nobody – but there can be times when I’m fucking terrified. And I really mean big time terrified, with capital fucking letters. But I’d never admit that to nobody. Why? Because it shows weakness and if anybody smells weakness in this game you are fucked. They will then go in for the kill. But saying that, there is a level of excitement about this. I get an adrenaline buzz out of all this.

Has anybody tried to kill you?

Yes – that’s the short answer. There was one time when a shot came in my window at 3 o’clock in the morning. I have had nights when I’d get a phone call telling me that it isn’t safe to go home because there was somebody waiting to pounce. There have been nights when I’ve had to hide out in a hotel – which is a good alibi, if you know what I mean – while I waited until some shit was sorted out. For instance, just before Christmas, I got a text message telling me to watch me back – cos someone I know is plotting to kill me. But, thankfully, the person who was going to carry out the hit called to me door and told me the story. I was lucky that the hitman was a good friend of mine. I was blessed. They’d been offered 30 grand to get me. Fucking peanuts. So, I had to sort that out.

Why not stop if you are so rich?

It is the power. It has nothing to do with the money. Having the power over people. Knowing that you’re top dog and nobody is taking that from you. Your name is out there and everybody is supposed to shake when they hear your name. It is an unbelievable buzz. Of course, it is down to being greedy as well (laughs).

Do you not feel like moving away?

I am moving away. I’m not going to leave Ireland. I’m staying here. I’ll just move down the country somewhere. If you change your car and change your location and they see that you’re out of the equation you should be OK.

From talking to you, I’m getting the impression that the drug trade will deteriorate even more.

In killings? Definitely worse. Let me give you an example: there is a certain party that I know and there’s a few people trying to take over his patch, but he won’t allow it. There will be a certain couple of people who’ll be taking care of during the next few weeks. And one of them is an IRA man trying to take over this person’s patch. There is a lot trying to take over the main patches – which are pubs, clubs, Clondalkin, Crumlin and Finglas. Believe it or not, Tallaght is not as bad these days for drugs.

A recent book, High Society, alleged that everybody from politicians, to airline pilots, to even nuns, are taking cocaine…

I don’t know about nuns (roars laughing), but everyone really – there’re teachers, famous people, solicitors, doctors, even journalists! I personally know two high profile politicians who’ve taken coke. It’s as common these days as a pint of beer. And it’s just as easy to get. Walk into any big club and you’ll be able to score, no problem. I was in a taxi recently and the driver pointed out another taxi driver and said, “See him! He’s a drug dealer.” It’s everywhere. I know a 73-year-old man who is selling methadone. He can be found any day of the week in the centre of town, selling it to the junkies. The cops don’t pick him up because he looks like an old tramp. And he operates Monday to Sunday, and if he is not in his usual haunt, they all know where else to find him (laughs)!

Do you have many celebrity clients?

Yeah. We use an escort agency that all the top celebrities use and that’s how they get the drugs. Once you give it to somebody famous you can get into their circles and sell to other famous people. We can charge them excessive prices. Charge them whatever you want. What we’d normally sell for 25 we can sell to a celebrity for 125.

I’ve heard rumours of a famous solicitor dealing with coke?

(Roars laughing) Dealing or using? Yeah, there is three I know. It is not unheard of for certain solicitors to be buying cocaine from their clients. I know of a couple of solicitors who have gone into court several times moments after taking a few lines. It’s just a vicious circle. To answer your question, there’s one solicitor dealing.

There have been media reports of drugs being randomly dropped into letterboxes in Dublin.

We’ve been known to drop drugs through someone’s letterbox – or even plant drugs inside their gaff – in order to get them framed. There is an awful lot of setting each other up in this game, but I don’t know anyone who would drop drugs through a random letterbox in the hope of drumming up new business. We’re not that desperate (laughs). Maybe somebody would stoop that low. I wouldn’t be surprised with anything in this line of business.

How young are people starting to experiment with hard drugs now? Are there young kids out there taking drugs?

There’re kids out there as young as 12 and 13 taking drugs. Last night I saw a couple of 13-year-old kids beat the shit out of some guy just walking down the street. This was at 2 o’clock in the morning and here they are, 13 years of age, out on the street looking for money. There is no way those kids weren’t on something. They are running around, out of their game. Now that is fucking sick. It’s the parents' fault.

But how can you – a drug dealer – witness something like that and still deal in drugs?

Look, I said this to you before – a drug dealer doesn’t even care if his own mother’s taking stuff. Drug dealers wouldn’t care as long as they’re getting money. They wouldn’t care if it was a young baby – well, I would, I wouldn’t go that far – or an old person they’re selling to. I don’t care who takes it or who doesn’t take it – just as long as I get paid. I don’t bother with anything else beyond that.

What about legalising drugs?

I agree with legalising cannabis alright, but nothing else. Look, legalising drugs would affect drug dealers’ profits – big time. But for medical purposes I’d say we should get cannabis legalised. I had somebody very close to me who died from cancer and – he never smoke or drank – but he took the cannabis near the end to help ease the pain.

Do you take drugs?

Just cannabis. Growing up, I wouldn’t go near coke or heroin because I was a chicken. I was afraid of it. I grew up watching kids I knew sniffing glue and diesel – high as a kite. My dad would’ve killed me if I got into drugs. When I was growing up there was only hash and Purple Hearts – the old amphetamine type tablets. That’s all there was. When heroin came out back in the ’80s I was too busy selling it to take it.

What is going to be the next big drug?

In another 10 years it will be crack cocaine. It’s getting out onto the streets now and it’ll be a big-time drug by the end of the year. Mark my words. The Nigerians are bringing it in. I could bring you down right now to one of their factories which has a huge shipment of crack cocaine waiting to be put out onto the streets. They’re putting everything into that as well. Cocaine’s the drug that the public is hearing about now and it’s only because of the recent deaths, including that famous socialite who died of it.