Still Getting His Kicks

Footballers and pop music do not always make for comfortable bedfellows. If you’re old enough, you may well be haunted by memories of Hoddle and Waddle’s ‘Diamond Lights’ and Gazza and Lindisfarne’s demolition of ‘Fog On The Tyne’. You will understand, then, why I am filled with foreboding upon discovering I am to be ‘treated’ to an exclusive advance hearing of the debut album from Paul McGrath. Yes, Paul McGrath. The soccer legend has decided to become a recording artist. This could be interesting.

As it turns out, my worries are in vain. On Handle With Care, McGrath shows he can deliver a song with a laidback confidence. More than that, he brings real warmth to ‘And I Love Her’ by The Beatles, Bob Dylan’s ‘Don’t Think Twice, It’s All Right’, ‘Ol’ 55’ by Tom Waits, Van Morrison’s ‘Have I Told You Lately That I Love You’ and ‘Sunday Morning Coming Down’ by Kris Kristofferson. When I meet him at a bustling Wexford cafe he is relaxed, modest and friendly. He also laughs a lot. Life, you can tell, is treating him well right now.

Jackie Hayden: People who hear your album might wonder why it’s taken you so long to get around to putting out a record?
Paul McGrath: (laughs) It really began with the idea of doing some recordings for charity. I’ve never sung in public really. I’ve always loved singing ‘Sunday Morning Coming Down’ in the shower. Brian O’Flaherty and Hugh Drumm persuaded me to record it. I blame them! Seriously, it wouldn’t have happened at all if it hadn’t been for their determination and their patience. Although I know there are certain things you can do in the recording studio, I presumed it’d be a disaster anyway. I thought I’d have a go for their sake. I surprised myself in that I thought it didn’t turn out so badly. A percentage of the profits from the album will go to the Acquired Brain Injury Foundation and the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation in Ireland.
So how did one track turn into an album?
After we did ‘Sunday Morning Coming Down’ they sort of sneakily asked me to do another couple. Bit by bit it grew into a whole album.
How do you feel now it’s finished?
I still cringe at some of the tracks. Listening to it I think maybe I didn’t hit that note right or I could have got that phrase a little better. But for a first-timer it’s not a bad effort. I’d never been in a recording studio before. I gave it my best shot. I’m delighted I’ve got some really good feedback.
Did you enjoy the recording experience?
I did once I got used to it. I was very wary at first. By the end I think I might have been hooked! I enjoyed working with Hugh in the studios in Dún Laoghaire. Brian managed the project. Of course, I was initially nervous about tackling some of the songs, especially since all of them have been recorded by such great artists. He helped me believe in myself. The more recordings we did the more comfortable I became. Hugh, to his credit, was very patient. I know there are far better singers out there. The only reason I was getting a chance to do this at all was because of my profile as a footballer. I’ve no great illusions.
So will you make another album?
I suppose it depends on how this one’s received. It’s not that I’m setting out to be a rock star doing tours all over the place and putting a band together and all that stuff. It’s something I did to help a couple of charities. That said, I also wanted it to be halfway decent so people who buy it feel they’re getting value for their money. I pushed myself as much as I could to deliver on that front.
If you don’t do another one, this one could become a collector’s item?
(Laughs) I’d be delighted if it became a collector’s item, so long as lots of collectors out there buy it and help the two charities! It’s really about making a few shillings for them rather than launching a singing career. Of course I’d do it again if there was a good enough reason to. If somebody said I had to get a band and go off and do gigs, I wouldn’t be into that.
How did you pick the songs?
Some of them were old favourites. There were some Hugh thought would suit my voice and range. For example, I’d never heard Tom Waits’ ‘Ol’ 55’ until Hugh played it to me. I had to learn it from scratch.
It’s a different experience, isn’t it, from playing soccer?
In what way?
Well, soccer is a team game and if you lose it’s the team that loses. As a singer you are on your own.
I don’t think of this album in terms of winning or losing. The fact that’s I’ve done it is a victory in itself.
Growing up in Dublin, what music did you like?
I was a big fan of Thin Lizzy. They were a huge band to me then, a big presence in my life. Later I became a fan of U2. I’ve never been a collector of records, although I used to like playing music in the car. I was also a fan of country music, although I wasn’t supposed to be.
Why were you not supposed to be a fan of country music?
Black people aren’t supposed to like country music! I liked a lot of country music, singers like Kris Kristofferson and especially Johnny Cash. He’s one of my favourite all-time artists.
Do you go to gigs a lot?
I’ve actually seen quite a few gigs this summer. I think The Coronas are brilliant, and so is Ryan Sheridan. I went to see Ryan and I was amazed by the sound they can get from two of them – him and that guy who plays the drums which just look like a pile of boxes that he plays with his hands. It’s a magnificent sound. Pugwash are another band I like a lot.
If you were going to get a Christmas present of a CD what would you like?
I suppose, more or less anything by Johnny Cash. I think he’s made some amazing records and written some terrific songs. I’m also a big fan of Chris Rea. I tend to like the quieter sort of music too.
Was music part of the scene with the Irish soccer team, say after matches?
Yeah, we’d often have a sing-song if we felt like it. Sometimes it might depend on the result. Singing a few songs was a good way of maybe cheering ourselves up or maybe showing our Irishness.
Would you yourself sing a song on those occasions?
Not on my own, Jesus no! I’d join in with the rest of the lads. I’d never have the confidence to do that on my own.
Which of the other players would have had a good voice?
John Devine has a good voice. He used to play guitar quite well. He’d often bring one with him. Kevin Moran could also carry a tune too.
If the Irish team lost a match, would you sulk afterwards?
Yeah, we would be sulkers. You’d be down a bit for a while. Maybe a few home truths would come out about how you’d actually played. Then the rebel spirit would kick in. We’d be determined to win the next one. Your mind would start focusing on the upcoming match rather than the last one, so you’d pick yourself up that way.
What about games where the team might have played well but still lost and you’d have to face public or media criticism?
Players know when they’ve played well or played badly. Even when you’re out there doing it, you know if it’s good or bad. You don’t have to read about it in the papers or wait for the TV pundits to tell you. You might have to shake hands at the final whistle with the guy who’s scored the winning goal and you were supposed to be marking him. You have to accept that as part of the game. Next time it might be the other way round. So the feedback afterwards is something you have to live with. You can’t accept favourable comments and object to the bad stuff. Sometimes you’d learn something about a player that’d be useful next time you play, or maybe next time you play against him.
Do you miss playing?
Oh, I miss it big time. I miss the whole camaraderie, the fun and the excitement of the game itself. Although I’m living in Wexford now I still have friends in England I go over to visit whenever I can, like Andy Townsend. We’ve been friends since we played together at Aston Villa and I still see him. Norman Whiteside is another. I played with Norman at Man U. A great player and great company. Kevin Moran is another player I meet quite often.
When you get together do you relive the highlights of the past, telling each other the old war stories?
Not all that much, although we might talk about some of the capers we got up to here or there, like climbing out of windows or some of the laughs we had. There were always jokers in teams doing mad stuff. I think playing was more fun back then than it is now. There were things you could get away with back then you couldn’t try now. Too many people watching you!
Why would somebody be climbing out windows?
Well Norman did that quite a bit! And maybe I did too!
What would be the point?
Probably to sneak off somewhere to have a few pints without the boss knowing about it.
I get the impression you’re not a big fan of today’s style of soccer?
No. I think a lot of the fun has gone out of the game. There’s too much money around it. Don’t get me wrong. I’d be perfectly happy to be playing now for the financial rewards. The physicality has been taken out of the game almost totally. If you so much as touch a goalkeeper it’s a free. I used to enjoy maybe going up to head a ball against a keeper, that physical challenge. Maybe he’d come out and, going for the ball, he’d punch your head and it’d hurt. Or maybe you’d beat him to it and score. It was a physical sport. Now it’s all too nice. I used to enjoy getting stuck in.
Who did you enjoy getting stuck into?
There were quite a few of them and for different reasons. John Fashanu was always a challenge to play against. He once broke my mouth in a tackle, demolished a few of my teeth. I don’t know what that was about.
Would you hold grudges against him for that, like maybe get him back next time à la Roy Keane?
No, I never carried grudges like Roy. For me, once the game was over that was the end of it. We’d go and have a few pints together and put the match behind us.
Would you blame the referees for the way the game has changed?
Well, the referees are only implementing the instructions that are handed down to them from FIFA and Sepp Blatter...
Who else do you remember playing against?
I always enjoyed playing against Teddy Sheringham because he was actually quite slow physically. But he was very quick-witted, and he could just as easily put one over on you. He was always a challenge.
What did you think of the recent Irish performances against Slovakia and Russia?
I was disappointed we didn’t do better in the game against Slovakia at home. Our lads did amazingly well to get back from Russia with a draw. They were all over us in the first half and I was nearly looking at the game through my fingers! Richard Dunne was amazing, as was Shay Given. They kind of rescued us from hell. It was also great to see the team all working for each other, as if the old spirit was coming back. We live to fight another day.
Do you really think we can still qualify?
We could even win the group. It’s still that open. I think we’re more likely to get through from the play-offs. However, a shock win or two can totally change things. A lot can depend on what the other teams do too.
If you were in Trapattoni’s place, what would you do to get us through the next few matches?
I think we badly need somebody who can score goals on a regular basis. I’m not sure if there is anybody.
How do you rate Trapattoni?
I’ve met him a few times through projects we’ve worked together on. I can tell you that this is a man deeply in love with the sport. He’s passionate, make no mistake about that. Totally committed to the Irish side.
How does he compare with Jack Charlton?
It’s hard to compare them fairly because the game was so different even as recently as the Charlton era. Jack had a different style that was partly to do with the kind of man he was, but also because he had to adapt to use the players he had available to him and get the best out of them. He did a remarkable job. He knew how to motivate us. He’d stop the coach on the way home from a game to let us have a few pints somewhere. You probably couldn’t do that today with all the attention there is on teams and players from everywhere, FIFA, the public, the media...
How did you get on with him?
Very well, after the initial settling-in period that you have to do with any new manager.
Trapattoni doesn’t seem to have captured the hearts of the Irish people the way Jack did.
Well, there are probably several reasons for that. There’s the language problem. We could understand Jack, most of the time (laughs), and his straight-talking personality appealed to the Irish fans. We had never enjoyed any real kind of national success before he arrived on the scene, like getting to the finals of major championships. He was bound to be a national hero. Those successes have made it harder for anyone who follows him. We have higher expectations now.
Are there any new comers to the team you think will be major players over the next five, ten years?
Well, I’d keep an eye on James McCarthy for one. He’s only about 20. I think he’s got bags of potential.
Would you fancy the manager’s job yourself?
(Laughs) No, not at all, Jackie. I don’t have the ability to shout and scream abuse at players and bully them the way you have to when you take on that kind of responsibility. I wouldn’t be able to deal with all those egos either.
How intense does it get in the dressing-room at half-time if a team isn’t playing too well?
Oh, it can get really intense, believe me (laughs).
In what way?
You could have a manager sticking his face right up to yours and literally screaming at you, calling you all the names in the world. Sometimes it can be really humiliating. There’s nothing you can do about it. You have to learn how to take it. It’s part of your job, and it’s his job to get the most out of you. You also have to consider the possibility that the manager who’s shouting at you and spitting in your face might actually be right, that maybe you deserve it and need it to get your game sorted out.
Did that happen to you?
Of course. It happens to every player.
And does anybody ever answer back?
Well, I did on one occasion. That was with Alex Ferguson at Man U.
How did that come about?
Myself and Bryan Robson were coming back after having been out of action for a while through injuries, and he gave us a run-out in a match with the under-17 squad. At one point during the game I made a bad mistake, so he came over to me and started screaming abuse right into my face. I knew I’d made a mistake. I didn’t need him to tell me, and I actually started to tell him to cool down, telling him that there was no need for him to shout, that I knew what I’d done was wrong. Even while I was answering back at him I felt I was in the wrong myself, that I was actually humiliating him in front of younger players. I really felt sorry about that, that I’d been so disrespectful to him in front of others. I think I knew I was on my way out of Old Trafford by then and maybe I didn’t care. I still feel I should have taken his criticism in the usual way and not responded the way I did.
What do you think of Ferguson?
His track record speaks for itself. I probably get on better with him now than I did towards the end of my career with Man U. He’s actually been very good to me and he regularly invites me over to be part of events connected with the team. He’s a really nice man and I have a lot of time for him.
Wayne Rooney as recently compared with Pelé. Do you think Rooney is really that good?
I don’t actually think you can compare players from different eras like that. The game has changed so much since Pelé’s day. Rooney’s having a very good season so far, and he seems to be far more comfortable with himself of late and he’s delivering the goods. He had a dreadful World Cup and that was only a year ago, so only time will tell how good he really is.
Irish fans tend to be fairly enthusiastic about wanting England to lose international matches, no matter who they’re playing. Did that attitude extend to Irish players playing in England like yourself?
Oh yeah, it would. It’s more to do with some of the people who run the game in England who have a snooty attitude to everybody else. They think England has a divine right to win trophies. Like, when England were playing Wales a few weeks ago, I really wanted Wales to win. But if England get through to the finals I’ll probably want them to do well. It’s not something I feel all that strongly about.
Did you experience racism when you were playing?
Oh, yeah, quite a lot of it.
On the pitch?
Not really on the pitch, but more from fans of other teams, people who were showing off maybe. Or people thinking they were being smart. Most of it is just stupid stuff and the best way of dealing with it is to ignore it. It’s never pleasant.
Would opposing players not use racist comments to taunt you even if they didn’t really mean it? Steve Staunton once told me players used to call him a Fenian bastard, even though they probably didn’t know what a Fenian was. They’d try it on just to rile him.
No, I don’t recall anything like that happening to me on the pitch to any great extent. Besides, there is a point where if a player is having to try so desperately to put one over on you like that it would more than likely make me laugh, because I’d feel I already had the measure of him and that he knew it.
So what players did you laugh at?
Vinnie Jones. He was actually hilarious when he was with Wimbledon. When the teams would be lined up in the tunnel before the match he’d be shouting and roaring at the opposing team, telling us what he was going to do to us once we got out on to the pitch. We just used to laugh back at him. It was like he was playing a part, and he later actually became a film actor. Professional players know that the only way to react to that kind of stuff is to laugh your head off at it.
The atmosphere at some matches, especially against Continental teams, often seems to be extremely hostile. Were you ever scared or worried something might happen to you?
Not at all. Never. It all added to the excitement of the occasion and maybe even helped you to play better. I remember playing somewhere like Turkey, possible against Fenerbahce. The team bus was crawling through throngs of people. We could see that some of them seemed to be shooting guns into the air and they were holding banners up calling us all sorts of names. I always felt totally safe. If anything, it was really exciting and gave an extra edge to a game and maybe to the way you played as well. I suppose if there were guns there really was the possibility that they could actually shoot you, and you had no way of protecting yourself against that happening during a match. It’s never happened and I was never worried about coming to any harm.
How do you think Shamrock Rovers will fare against Tottenham in the Europa League?
You’re always in with a chance on the night, no matter who you’re playing against. Rovers have some really good players in their current side and I know that Harry Redknapp will be treating this as a serious game for Tottenham. He’ll be making no assumptions whatsoever about Rovers’ capabilities. The great thing about soccer is that a match can go any way on the day. I’ve gone out many times full of confidence that we were going to win and before you know what’s happening you can be a goal or two down and having to pick yourself up.
Who do you fancy for the English Premier League this season?
You’d have to go for Man U even at this early stage. Personally I’d like to see Chelsea win it because I’ve always been a big Chelsea fan, even from the early days. Peter Osgood was a big hero for me. I loved players like Charlie Cooke and ‘Chopper’ Harris, players who could tackle. I used to have Chelsea posters on my wall. My mother gave me a Chelsea kit with No. 9 on the back and I was delighted with it. It’s early days yet, so who knows what the season has in store?
You suffered from serious injuries throughout your playing career. Do they still affect you?
Of yeah, the knees are still bad from all the knocks I took.
Is there anything you can do about that?
Not really. I have to live with it. I played a match a while ago up in Drogheda and I found that when I was moving backwards I was falling down without any help from anybody! But they still get me around.
You’ve also had well-publicised problems with alcohol. Are they all in the past?
Yeah. There’s really nothing more I have to say about that. I’ve been over it so many times before. I’m doing fine these days. Life is very good to me right now and my attention is very much focused on this CD. I want to promote as much as I can and raise some money for two deserving charities.

Paul McGrath’s album Handle With Care will be released on September 23 with distribution via Beaumex. A percentage of the profits will go to the Acquired Brain Injury Foundation and the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation in Ireland.