Russell Terrier

At the ripe old age of 72, Ken Russell probably no longer qualifies as an enfant terrible. The controversial British film director is still eminently worthy of the title interviewee terrible, however, something which Joe Jackson of this parish discovered to his horror several years ago when, having taken offence at one of Jackson s questions, Russell threw a copy of Hot Press across the room and stormed out of the interview, never to return.
But then Russell has always had a reputation for being difficult. And for making difficult films. Once described as cinema s de Sade , his movies are generally controversial affairs, awash with overt sexual and religious imagery, often juxtaposed with the basest of human behaviour. Although his flamboyant and highly visual style has won him a massive cult following over the years, he hasn t always been so lucky with the critics. Some see him as a genius, others just think he s plain stupid (1987 s Salome s Last Dance was described by Time Out as being redolent of a retarded pornographer s revue ).
In fact, his capriciously baroque movie romps have offended the sensibilities of more than just the critics several of his movies have been banned by the censors (Whore, The Devils etc.), not just in Ireland but in numerous other countries as well. Generally the charge is blasphemy, but the sex scenes probably don t help much either.
As it happens, Russell isn t in Dublin to promote a new film. His first novel Mike & Gaby s Space Gospel a rather silly sci-fi version of the life of Jesus Christ has just been published by Little Brown and may well lead to charges of blasphemy for his prose as well (but probably only by the Irish Catholic). Whatever reaction Catholics give it, however, it probably won t be anything compared to the richly deserved critical scorn coming. Certainly, it s safe to say that the book won t be picking up any awards in the near future.
The fact that I didn t like the book very much (and probably didn t disguise it very well) may have caused him to be a little frostier than usual, but somehow I doubt it. He s not an easy man to warm to. Sitting aloofly across from me over a coffee table in his Shelbourne Hotel suite, Russell silver haired, porcine, moon face coloured a particularly virulent strain of claret red remained polite but somewhat distant and pompous throughout our entire encounter, rarely making eye contact or even smiling. Still, at least he didn t throw anything at me. . .

OLAF TYARANSEN: You ve left it rather late in life to write your first novel. Was it always an ambition?
KEN RUSSELL: No. It started life as a film script as you may have guessed in 1975. I seem to remember doing quite a bit of research on TV science gurus at the time, saying could science work miracles, basically. And they went away and came back and said in certain circumstances under the right conditions, blah, blah, blah (waves hand expressively). And so that was the sort of spur to write the film script. So it was the eternal debate science versus religion. And it started off fairly seriously.
But I could never get it off the ground for two reasons. One, because the budget would be quite considerable, and it was such a risky interpretation and possibly blasphemous. So no Hollywood producer or Italian, come to that would touch it. So I sent it off to a friend of mine, a Jesuit who taught film at University. And he passed it on to a Jesuit lawyer who specialised in blasphemy and he said, no, it s science fiction. So with my blasphemy-free certificate I tried again, but they still didn t buy it. So it went in a trunk in the basement with a lot of other potential masterpieces. And then a few years ago somebody who knew I had written it asked if I had ever got lucky with it. And I said no and they said have you ever thought of turning it into a novel? And the rest, as they say, is history. Did you enjoy it?
Em . . . well, I quite liked it. . . .
You quite liked it. I see (sulks slightly, shrugs).
You converted to Catholicism when you were 28. Are you still a Catholic?
Once a Catholic, always a Catholic.
I don t know. I was once a Catholic and I don t consider myself one any more.
That s what you think (sniffs).
Do you go to mass on a regular basis?
Not on a regular basis.
But you do go?
I went two Christmases ago.
That s not very Catholic!
I should think it s very Catholic from what I know of Catholics.
Well, do you believe in an afterlife?
I don t know what that is. I just hope there s something. But if there is, it won t be anything we can possibly imagine. It will just be something so extraordinary. I think we re very naive. An afterlife!!! I don t think anyone believes in angels in clouds, but they believe in something along those lines. Maybe we will be part of some sort of intelligence. There s obviously an amazing intelligence at work. They re finding out that the brain has 85 billion components or something. Whoever thought that up! It just didn t happen because two amoebas got together and got off in a warm Sargasso sea. That is just naive to think that.
Even if the script was blasphemous, it wouldn t necessarily have bothered you, would it?
No, but it was just getting the money to set it up to make a film. But it was good to know because obviously anyone . . . (pauses). They jumped up and said blasphemous when I made The Devils. But now it s on the curriculum at several film schools and universities and has been for years. It s still banned here someone told me and in Glasgow.
You ve had a number of films banned in your time. Are you bitter about that?
There s no point being bitter about anything. That s the way of the world. What s bitterness? It s an inward thing. It s like being bitter when it rains.
Do you plan to make any more films?
Well, I was just commissioned recently to write a film script on the life of J.M. Barry who wrote Peter Pan. And I ve just delivered that to an American company and they re very pleased with it. So if the budget s right, I think that could be my next one which I d very much like to do because he was a fascinating character. Plus I m a bit of a Peter Pan myself. I m also three-quarters of the way through my second novel.
And what s the second novel about?
It s about the new religion football. Well, it is the official religion in 2034 and there s somebody around who could be the new Messiah or who could be the Devil.
Are you a football fan?
I like the fun of it. I m not fanatical about it. I m a sort of fascinated observer. I watch the big matches. I watch the little matches when The Saints are playing, my Southampton team of eccentrics always kicking around the bottom of the second division.
Personally, I find it a bit scary the way people are so fanatical about football.
Well, it is the new religion, isn t it? Or a new religion, let s say. And, yeah, I was on a TV programme the other day and the guy on before me, he was Sir somebody, I forget who now who scored the winning goal in the World Cup in 1966, and he was treated like a saint. And this was 66, how many years ago was that? And it just goes to show that it s got its venerated saints already. I m not a fanatic. I suppose you can call me a fan. I find it amusing they way people are up and venerated and the next day they re down and abused. It s a dodgy old business. That s what fascinates me as well the Beckhams and the Michael Owens and the manager of England. It s denigration instant fame and degradation.
A little like your own career . . .
It was hardly instant. I was 33 before anyone had heard of me. But I always loved films. If you are a painter you can probably afford a few water colours and people can judge your talent. If you say I want to be a film director, how can they judge? Nowadays it s easy because anyone can borrow a video camera and you can make your own little movie to a track of music you like or whatever and show it to someone and they ll say hey, this guy s got talent and there you go.
Film is much more of a collaborative art though, isn t it? A talented director working with bad actors will still make a lousy movie.
Well, the first film I made, I shot it myself, I edited it myself, I directed it myself, I wrote it myself The Angel Wings. I had a couple of friends helping me out, but I found that if you get the right theme and you know what you want to do, they ll back you up. It s only when it gets out of your hands and into the hands of the people who put up the money, they can just change it. And frequently do.
Did you get on well in Hollywood?
Well, I ve had a few disagreements. It s a strange place. I made Altered States with huge studio backing. It s the only film I ve ever made where I didn t know what the budget was. But anything I wanted I could have. But that was the only one ever. The rest of them have been restricted by budget considerations. I would probably have done more films if I d had limitless budgets. I ve also worked in America with non-union crews. You can get very talented guys or you can get dead-beats. That was the case on Crimes Of Passion, which actually turned out OK.
The hallucination scenes in Altered States were very vivid. Have you ever taken acid?
No, I ve never taken any drugs. I ve taken three tugs of marijuana. But when I was on Altered States I found a packet of dried mushrooms in my car and my wife and I tried them out one Sunday afternoon in our bungalow by the pool. It was very windy and the pool was surrounded by typical Hollywood plants fronds and palms and stuff. And they seemed to be vicious. They seemed to be trying to claw us to death and you felt that if they could they d uproot themselves and leap at you. And there was a Li-Lo floating on the pool and it was bumping at the side and trying to get out at us.
So, it wasn t a pleasant experience then?
No, so we rushed inside and locked the door until it wore off. But I ve got a vivid imagination and I think music s my drug. I just have to plug into that and I m away.
Do you spend much time in Hollywood now?
No, I was in Canada not long ago doing a Hollywood film. That was for a thing for Showtime a TV network. But I have done three or four films there. It s a good place to work.
Are you generally very busy all the time?
I make myself busy. One s only got a certain amount of time. One can be busy doing nothing. I live in the country. I was born in Southampton which is near the New Forest where I live now. I thought I used to know the New Forest. We used to go on picnics as a kid and we used to just sit on the side of the road and drink tea from a thermos. Now I m just plunging into the unknown. So that s fun. And I play music on my Walkman as I do these trips. And that s a trip in itself. And there s one walk I do when the weather s not good, the same walk. And depending what music you play, it s a different walk every day.
Going back to the novel for a moment, do you plan on making it into a film now?
No. If it became a bestseller and Hollywood bought it, then maybe. But I feel I ve made it in my head. I could do a storyboard for every sentence.
So are you making the films for yourself or for everybody else?
Who else should I make them for? If I was making them for anyone else, I d be making totally different films. These films are just to please me. But since I m a member of the human race I hope to please a few more. I started on this arts programme, Monitor. We were on fairly dodgy ground because we were dealing with artists and the great television public doesn t know much about artists. There s no reason why it should. It wasn t taught to them at school, so why should it know anything?
Sir Hugh Wheldon, who ran it, encouraged the enthusiasms of the people involved. There were half a dozen producers and one would be interested in literature, one would be interested in play and I was interested in music. So he said, what do you want to do? It was like a hobby. Music was my hobby and I loved it and so I said Elgar s great I d love to make a film on Elgar. I think his music is terrific. But he s underrated. He s under a cloud and everyone calls him jingoistic. So all my films are really to encourage people to get enthusiastic about whatever they are.
I m an evangelist in that sense. And the Elgar film was a huge breakthrough. There were hardly any records of his music. And the floodgates opened and millions were turned on to Elgar. So in doing it for myself as a huge fan and being passionate about Elgar, maybe the passion came across on the screen and made other people passionate about him. So, as I say, it s just tapping into some magic that s there. And that s hopefully been my approach on most of the films I ve done a passion for the subject and a desire to communicate to people who are receptive or have an open mind.
Does criticism bother you?
Yes, I m always hopeful that people will stop trashing me. They don t everywhere. In Italy I m up with Fellini and in certain circles in America. But in England they still trash me. I think they ve always resented the fact that. . . (pauses). You know, it s OK for Italian directors to be passionate, like Fellini, to be very colourful and operatic, but for an Englishman it s not quite the thing.
It s just beginning to change now isn t it?
It s about time too. It s taken 50 years to do it, you know. I think the only people who did that sort of flamboyant film were Michael Powell and myself.
What do think of Ken Loach?
I don t dig him at all.
Which of your contemporaries do you admire?
Well, whoever they are, I think there are three brothers two or three brothers who made The Matrix. I think it s amazing. I think it s one of the best films I ve ever seen. And I think everything from now on will be BM and AM Before Matrix and After Matrix. It s quite unbelievable. It s the first time I ve been in a cinema and thought it was empty and turned around at the end and saw it was packed full. Nobody talked, breathed, rummaged through packets of popcorn, chatted. It was obviously an experience that touched everyone one way or another and I think it s a great work of art.
What do you think of the new Stars Wars movie?
Crap! I ve seen the trailer. They re unbelievable. It s made for kids. The characters are so two-dimensional and the make-up so poor, the costumes. It looks as though it s made by computer, a soulless, humourless computer. I like pop films. My six-and-a-half-year-old son saw Godzilla and we both thought that was terrific. A lot of these films when they go for meteorites destroying everything are just rubbish. They re so unreal. You see them battered by these huge stones and they never kill anyone. Whereas with Godzilla, given there is this mythical creature running down Broadway, given that it didn t step outside the bounds of possibility that was totally convincing I thought. I liked Antz. I liked Mikey Joe, that was terrific fun. And Shakespeare In Love I liked. I thought it was a brilliant script, very clever.
What about Tarantino?
He s good but I think . . . (pauses). I hate the term self-indulgence. That film Pulp Fiction for me was far too long and repetitive. I wanted to get on with it. And that boring dance they do. And he says it was meant to be boring. I was bored 20 times over. I can be bored in a minute. I felt it was unnecessarily sadistic. But I admire him, he s a clever fellow. And he has turned Hollywood upside-down which I also admire. He got away with it.
Have you made a lot of money over the years?
No, I m broke. Three marriages and eight kids. I never earned a tremendous amount of money. When I was making my films in the 60s you d get a half million dollar budget but I d only get #10,000. That s hardly a fortune. It s gone up a lot, but I m not in the million bracket, not even in the half-million.
Does that bother you?
Nothing bothers me. I m really not bothered. Being bothered is a full-time job. I suppose I m bothered when a marriage breaks up. I m bothered at the time, but you can t be bothered forever. When something s over, it s over and that s the end of it. It s no use lingering and lamenting. I m a celebratory sort of character.
I celebrate the fact that I live in a lovely cottage with a fabulous garden, a wonderful lake, wonderful countryside, good friends, great children, great music, great days. What more do I want? What would I be able to do more if I was a millionaire? I don t go on expensive holidays. I think I ve always been on a holiday all my life.
Well, surely it d be artistically liberating to have the money to make the films you wanted to make?
I suppose I could make that (taps novel on table), but then it doesn t bother me if I can t, because I ve made it in my head anyway. And maybe it wouldn t be so good as a film. So I count myself very lucky. That s not to say I haven t made mistakes. We re not superhuman and we re not saints. But I often think well I should have done a film on Janis Joplin instead of Valentino, you know. I had the choice and I chose wrong. But so what? I made a mistake.
What s been your biggest achievement?
Living to the age of 72 despite the odds, despite the heart attack.
And has that caused you to slow down?
Speed up (laughs). Hey, I might get another one soon, let s get on with it. Let s not waste time.
So are you going to continue working?
Yeah. Working s fun. Working exercises the mind. It expands the mind and as long as one is expanding possibilities and the imagination and thinking of new wonders, that to me is working, but it s also living. Each day is a continual time of magic.
Do you have a motto in life?
Keep breathing. n
Mike & Gaby s Space Gospel by Ken Russell is published by Little Brown.