King Of The Castle

Oh my Lord! The right honourable Henry Conyngham, Earl of Mountcharles — or Lord Henry Mountcharles, as he’s better known on these shores — might be one of the world’s most rock ‘n’ roll aristocrats but, trademark colourful odd socks aside, he’s dressed more like a wealthy stockbroker today. About to have his photograph taken in the vast entrance hall of Slane Castle, he’s a touch concerned about the formal nature of his attire.

“I don’t actually dress like this all the time,” the naturally plummy-toned 59-year-old explains, indicating his sharp business suit and crisply tailored shirt. “It’s just that I had some meetings this morning. Perhaps I should go upstairs and get changed?”
Luckily, sartorial help is at closer hand. The Castle has just taken delivery of several thousand black cotton T-shirts advertising his Slane Castle whiskey, and they’re still stacked in boxes by the doorway. Mountcharles rips opens a box, pulls one out, and takes off his shirt (Hot Press snapper Mark Nixon’s brazen request to be allowed take a topless photo is met with a polite but firm refusal).
“They’re rather nice, aren’t they?” he remarks, proudly holding one up for display. The front features an image of his famous ancestral home with the words ‘SLANE CASTLE WHISKEY’ above it. “I spend a lot of time on the road in America promoting it,” he says of his latest business venture, “I’m more like a travelling salesman nowadays.”
Listed in red lettering on the back are the names of every single act ever to play at his unique venue. It’s been 30 years since Thin Lizzy headlined the first ever show in 1981, supported by Megahype, The Bureau, Sweet Savage, Rose Tattoo, Hazel O’Connor and long-forgotten Dublin foursome U2. Although there was no concert held on some years (including last year), the castle’s musical CV is still hugely impressive: Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Van Morrison, Queen, The Rolling Stones, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Oasis, Simple Minds, R.E.M., Madonna, Guns ‘N’ Roses, The Verve, Foo Fighters, PJ Harvey, The Walls, Bryan Adams, Robbie Williams, Bruce Springsteen, etc, etc.
There’s just seventeen days to go until this year’s Slane show — headlined by Kings Of Leon, the line-up also features The Whigs, Mona, White Lies, Thin Lizzy and Elbow — and preparations are already well underway. The stage hasn’t been built yet, but the VIP seating sections are almost fully up. The sound of men at work echoes constantly around the
castle walls.
Before we adjourn to one of the many reception rooms to record the interview, Mountcharles gives us a guided tour of the place he’s called home since returning to live in Ireland in the mid-1970s. It’s quite some crib – with quite some history. Royal sexual shenanigans aside, even the recent stuff is interesting. In 1991, there was a disastrous fire in the castle, causing extensive damage to the building and completely destroying the Eastern section facing the River Boyne. It took ten years to restore, a programme completed without any public funding. He’s particularly proud of the rebuilt sections – most especially the stunning upstairs ballroom – and some of the restored artworks.
We sit in the room that was used as the production suite during the recording of U2’s most prophetically titled album. The irony of it all isn’t lost on him. “You really couldn’t make it up,” he smiles. “It is a bloody weird thing to record an album in the building, to call the album The Unforgettable Fire, and then the place nearly burns to the ground – and us in it! But I’m extremely proud of the restoration and the structural changes we made. It’s all part of the castle’s history. In 100 years’ time, the fire may even be viewed as a good thing.”
OLAF TYARANSEN: When you put the first Slane show on in 1981, did you ever suspect that you’d still be doing it 30 years on?
LORD HENRY MOUNTCHARLES: I suppose, genuinely, I knew what I wanted to build the thing into. I wanted to position Slane at the same sort of level as the All-Ireland Final and the Irish Derby. Now, that may sound a bit wacky, and I had a conversation with (MCD’s) Denis Desmond about it several months ago. We were reminiscing about that. I think that he and Eamon McCann thought I was nuts. But the critical thing was the emotive thing of the first show. There are lots of people who are still around who remember the first show.
It was in the middle of the hunger strikes.
Yeah. Ireland was a pretty dark place. It was not greeted with overwhelming enthusiasm by certain elements locally, even nationally. I was told that this was not good for the image of Ireland. People in the tourist business were not enthused at all. But of course, now it’s mainstream. So it was groundbreaking. The Police had played at Leixlip. And there were obviously things happening in the UK: Knebworth, and all the rest of it. But this really was a pathfinder venue. And then the critical thing was to follow it up with The Rolling Stones. That was a very difficult deal to put together, but I was so determined to see it happen. Once we got to ‘82 and through that, then Slane was going to turn into something big. I knew that. And I suppose in a sense, bizarrely, if one looks back on it, in ‘83, Dennis Desmond and myself and Eamon McCann, jointly promoted a gig in the Phoenix Park with U2, Simple Minds, Eurythmics and Big Country on the bill. And we should have had it at Slane because all the bands, particularly U2, just took off at the same time. We were all very conscious of Slane being such a big thing in ‘82 that if the crowd was say 50% of what it had been, it would somehow undermine the credibility of the venue. But of course, we were wrong in that case and the rest is rock ‘n’ roll history. But I was conscious in ‘87 when we had the Glass Spider tour with David Bowie that I needed a rest. And the venue needed a rest.
You took a five-year break.
Until ‘92. I wanted to re-assess what was going on in my head. Of course, in the intervening period, there were some really very dramatic events in my own life and in Slane, two in particular.
These would be the fire and the murder (of Slane gamekeeper Tim Kidman).
The fire and the murder. I found both things difficult to cope with, and it took a long time. People say the scars never really go away but, suffice to say, I’ve come to terms with those events now.
Are you saying you had a breakdown at that time?
I wouldn’t say a breakdown, but I was pretty near the edge. I became very depressed. I drank too much. It was not a good period in my life. But in ‘92, Denis [Desmond] took me out to lunch and said, “C’mon, we’ve got to again.” And I said, “Absolutely! I’m up for it. I’m ready for it.” And he said, “Well I think two bands, Genesis or Gun ‘n’ Roses.” And (snaps fingers), I said “Guns ‘n’ Roses,” immediately. He looked rather taken aback because he didn’t expect me to go for Guns ‘n’ Roses. That was, in a sense, the re-christening of Slane because Guns ‘n’ Roses were it. Axl Rose was amazing that day.
He was also about four hours late onstage.
I’ll never forget that as long as I live. That was all very hairy. Then the whole thing took off again. But I was always going to get back to it. Sometimes in life, you have to re-assess… and we constantly re-assess now. People say, “Why do you take the occasional gap?” And now the gap is very specific. If I don’t have an act that I feel is right for the venue, I won’t go with it. And I’m really protective of Slane. I’m very proud of what it’s achieved and what it’s become. We’re listed now on various websites amongst the top ten venues in the world. People write to me from all over the place. The experience is special and different. But it is logistically very demanding. I was talking to one of the main guys who works for MCD, and the two of us looked at each other last week. We’re both getting a bit long in the tooth, and he just said, “It doesn’t get any easier, does it?” And I said, “No, it doesn’t.”
Why was there no show last year?
There wasn’t anyone I wanted to play Slane so I just said, “No – take a break.” Also, Oasis was a heavy gig and we’d made a number of significant changes, some physical changes to the venue and management changes too – everything from traffic, buses in particular, relocating bars, different management systems for the exits and entrances. There are a lot of people involved. It ain’t just me. MCD has a whole team, local authorities are involved, the Gardaí are involved, the coastguard are involved, civil defence, the health authority — there’s a wide body of experience now. Slane is a big deal, not just for Co. Meath, but nationally. There are a lot of people who’ll be flying in from America, and elsewhere, coming in to Slane. That produces revenue for Aer Lingus, hotels, etc. This has become an international event. And we want to get it right.
Why did you and Denis choose Kings Of Leon?
I was tracking Kings of Leon for quite some time. I was thinking about it again a couple of days ago. U2, in a sense, broke America to become big in Europe, and Kings of Leon broke Europe to become big in America. I like that. And the other thing which just had a wonderful fit about it is that it’s 30 years since that ‘81 show and all that it started. Also this year, it’s 25 years since Phil Lynott died. I said I’ve got to have a rock ‘n’ roll act. We’ve had Madonna, we’ve had Robbie Williams. I wanted a rock ‘n’ roll act. The thing about Kings of Leon is that their music, as indeed they’ve admitted, was very inspired by bands like The Rolling Stones and Thin Lizzy and indeed The Clash. We never had the Clash here – though it would have been fun. But there’s the fact that there’s a reformed Thin Lizzy actually on the bill.
That must be pleasing.
Of course! Hot Press had that news first – I very much wanted that to happen. Now when you’re dealing with bands as big as Kings of Leon, the headline act has a huge influence over the bill. But they were very happy to have Thin Lizzy on it, because that was part of where they got their inspiration from. So it’s been this wonderful journey since 1981. I feel very comfortable where it is now. When it started, all my kids were tiny. Now Alexander is living on the estate and he now owns part of the estate. We’re a father and son team. My little grandson, it’s going to be his first gig. It’s kind of hysterical when you think about it.
A family affair.
Indeed. [Sings Sly & The Family Stone lyrics] “It’s a family affair…” (laughs). It’s a family business. But you know, I still haven’t lost the grá for it.
Do you take risks? Have you ever lost your shirt on any of the gigs?
No. With some I made more money than others. Every deal is slightly different. In some respects, the deals get harder to make because in the early days we were sort of buccaneering, but now there are huge organisations like Live Nation involved. It has a slightly different feel. But it still has that element of the gathering of the tribes. There are people coming in who are involved with MCD, or they’re involved in the business – and they all have a smile on their face when they come to Slane because they freely admit to me that they like working here. It just ain’t like the Aviva Stadium or whatever. It’s different. It’s the Boyne Valley. It’s got, dare I say it, an element of mysticism. Over the years, people have tried to sort of knock it, saying, “Ah sure, it’s just a field in Co. Meath.”
That was Louis Walsh, wasn’t it?
Yes (laughs). I think he had a pop at me because I may have said that I didn’t think Westlife were quite the right act for the venue. But you know, Louis. Christ almighty, I’m actually very fond of Louis. I think he’s a gas ticket. Brian McFadden actually got married in the castle. Brian McFadden’s wedding was the first event we had in the castle after the restoration. With all these uncles from Donegal, talking about fishing.
Do many artists come to visit here after they’ve played shows?
Oh, yes. The most memorable visit we had in recent times was Springsteen. He appeared with all his family and he spent the afternoon here. He wanted to relive the moment because I think he remembers it only too well… he was actually slightly freaked.
How do you mean?
When he went out on the stage and the exuberance of an Irish audience back in ‘85 blew him away. He put on the most incredible performance. He also was next-door the night before (indicates next room) basically doing his set, so half a dozen of us saw that, which was pretty mind-blowing. Recently, he came back and we had a lovely afternoon together and then he went into the village to have a pint (laughs). The people in the Conyngham Arms, or whichever establishment, couldn’t believe their eyes. There was Bruce quietly having a Guinness. Very funny.
Who’s been the worst performer you’ve had or the worst to deal with? Possibly Axl Rose?
Well, he got forgiven because it was such a great show. That whole Axl thing was crazy. The manager fishing behind the back stage and then [son] Alex and I going to Slash and saying, “Please, please…” And then, eventually he arrived. But I was actually worried there was going to be a riot. People were getting very restless, quite understandably so. Because artists should have a respect for their audience.
Rose did it again at that disastrous show in
the O2.
Disgracefully so. But that day he produced the goods. Dave Fanning thought it was one of the best Slane shows. Several people have said it. But that was tricky. I’m being a bit diplomatic because I have to stay in the business (smiles).
U2’s gigs must have been a highlight.
Of course. Of all the bands that have performed at Slane, I’m obviously closest to U2. I’ve seen U2 on the road and I’ve seen the thing from all angles. A lot of these people, they travel in a bubble. And coming down out of the bubble is a tricky thing. You’re on the road for six months at the top of your game, every whim is taken care of, and suddenly the music stops – literally speaking – and you’ve got to try to be (wags fingers) “real” and lead a “normal life.” Not so easy. It’s bizarre. I suppose I feel very privileged that I have other aspects to my life. Because if my entire life was completely taken over by this lunacy, I think I’d be in a nut house. But it is wonderful. It can get very stressful. There will inevitably be differences of opinion in the run-in to the show. Not everyone is going to get what they want. But one has to stay calm. It’s good. If I don’t continue to get the buzz out of it, I’ll let the kids take over.
You must have been gutted when Eminem cancelled in 2005.
That was one of the worst years of my life. I could not believe it because I was really sick and didn’t know it. I was in Massachusetts, literally about to fly back for the build-up, and I was not feeling at all well and I didn’t know what was wrong with me. In fact, as it transpired, I had Type 1 Diabetes. At that stage, it was undiagnosed so I was not feeling well mentally or physically. Then the phone call comes through at six in the morning because Ireland’s ahead. Emer in my office said, “I have to wake you.” And I said, “What’s going down?” So she explained. Reuters had got this story and then, I thought, “Holy God.” Then I think I got hold of Denis, or Denis got hold of me, and they’d issued a statement. I thought, “I don’t believe this.” RTE got on to me and I had to go on the one o’clock news. So it’s the old thing, in the face of adversity, there is nothing better than humour. It’s rather like in the middle of the fire when part of my life’s work was being destroyed in front of my eyes. The home, it’s been in the family; we built it and all that part of national heritage, etc, etc. One of the farmers turned around to me and said, “Jaysus, Henry, this is quality smoke” (laughs). I just cracked up. So I thought, “I’ve got to go on the one o’clock news. What am I going to say?” So I went on the one o’clock news and I said that I understood that Eminem was suffering from nervous exhaustion and addiction to sleeping pills. So I said my doctors had told me that I’m suffering from an addiction to chocolate and from now on, I’m giving up M&Ms and I’m sticking strictly to Smarties. And of course, it was like, “I can’t believe you said that.” Well, what the hell do you say? What was really ironic about it was – here was me with my sugar levels up to whatever and of course the actual truth is I’m now a diabetic. I can’t eat chocolate. So anyway that happened and then I came back and I really felt awful, and it took a while for me to work out actually I really was physically ill. Of all crazy things, the Daily Mail do a column on ‘Know your own Health’ and I read it on Type 1 Diabetes. So I diagnosed myself. It was about ten days before they got me stable so I’m now totally insulin dependent. And I’m feeling, “bloody Christ, nothing else can go wrong.” It was also the year of Hurricane Katrina and so I thought, Christ almighty, what has happened in New Orleans — apart from the awfulness — is going to cost me an absolute fortune. So that was the third blow. My wife decided that I really needed a rest, so we went to Florida and we got caught literally in the middle of the hurricane (laughs). And after that, I thought, right, the world is gone, or at least this little bit of it I’m living in, this bubble or whatever, is gone completely nuts. So 2005 was not great.
Was there ever a year when everything went absolutely smoothly?
If you recall, we had terrible problems with Dylan in ‘84 and a lot of people were saying, “that’s the end of Slane” because of the riots. Then we turned around with Springsteen, and that was pretty cool. Recent years have been… I was obviously very upset about what happened at Oasis, but recent years have been pretty good. I felt spiritually renewed after the castle was rebuilt. You know, it’s wonderful to actually have my grandchildren living here and to see that there is a future. However angry I feel about what has happened nationally, I can see a continuum. That was always my aim. It was to bring the place into the 21st century; to make it make sense and to still not lose its spirituality. That may sound like it’s all been conflict, but my life has been a series of conflicts. Some perceived outside, lucky me, and some have been internal.
Are you happy?
Most of the time, yeah. Certainly now, I feel a lot happier than earlier in my life. I’m pretty philosophical about it. I feel happier within myself compared to say the early ‘90s. The early ‘90s were dark. And the early ‘80s were very difficult. But I’m still alive and kicking. I have two grandchildren. I have another grandchild on the way, my eldest daughter may well give birth before the show. Iona and I have been married for 25 years now. I’m going to be 60 on May 23. The sun is shining. What more do you want? (laughs)
You’ve pledged to the fans that you’ll have AC/DC at Slane at some point.
I had a problem which some people know about, which I don’t mind saying now, which was that I was offered AC/DC and Oasis – and I couldn’t do both. An awful shame. And I chose Oasis. They always had an edge because the Gallagher family come from Co. Meath. How could I say ‘no’ to that? I first saw Oasis many moons ago in a dive in Manhattan with Adam Clayton. They played Slane – they were support at REM in 1995. And the unfortunate thing was that AC/DC played Ireland within a week. And I really thought it was too risky to try and turn the venue around. The only band I’ve ever done that for is U2, and the circumstances were special. My relationship with the band was special. They recorded The Unforgettable Fire in the building. Adam Clayton is one of my closest friends and is also my youngest daughter’s godfather. But AC/DC are the most requested band in terms of the stuff that’s hit my office. So listen folks, if you’re reading this, for God’s sake stop bombarding me with e-mails. I’ve got the message.
Who else is on your wish list?
I’m not bloody telling you (laughs).
We were talking about the financial crisis before the interview.
Yes (sighs). What’s happening is a complete perversion of capitalism. You know, I just find it iniquitous.
You used to work with Lloyds, didn’t you?
I was an underwriting name for Lloyds for 25 years. And I’m technically still a name, but I’m not actually trading at the moment. But if I made a loss, I had to cough up. So what’s happening is crazy. OK, lots of mistakes were made, by our government and indeed by our banks. But the figures are so insane.
You started the Slane shows in the middle of a recession and now we’re back in the grip of an even worse one.
It’s kind of weird, that. Those were dark days, and this is a different type of darkness. In some respects, it’s a more pernicious darkness because having travelled through so much, and things having changed so much for the good, we end up back in this sort of space. I feel really uncomfortable about that but I hope that at the end of this month, people will be uplifted by this experience. They will enjoy themselves. In terms of hard commercial realities, there’s the ticket price — which I do not have control over – I expressed my view to try and keep it down which we’ve managed to, or Denis managed to. The VIP compound, we have dropped the ticket price. Actually I think it’s going to be quite bohemian: we’ve taken back the running of that ourselves and we’re going to do something special there. People do need value for money. But in a more general sense, it is strange that 30 years after the first show, we are now living in mind-blowing times. It hasn’t come full circle, but it’s like ‘okay here we go again. Let’s rock!’ (laughs)
What are your thoughts on how Ireland should move forward and recover?
On several fronts, I think the incoming government have to understand the mandate they got from the people. The mandate was not, “I love Fine Gael” and “I love Labour.” The mandate from the people was, “We absolutely reject the gross negligence with which the country was governed by Fianna Fail and the Greens, and Fianna Fail and the PDs.” What happened I do consider to be an economic crime. The people require the Labour Party and Fine Gael to honour the mandate that they were given and that does mean restructuring our debt. It would take a long time to go into the specifics of what the economist Morgan Kelly has been saying recently and whether that is the appropriate action to take. But what is not rocket science is that the current situation is unsustainable.
The Taoiseach admitted as much in Washington on St. Patrick’s Day. Now I do not envy the task that they are faced with, but they have got to start thinking like heretics. They’ve got to realise the manner in which the European Central Bank has behaved is not acceptable. And they have got to understand a democratic disconnect in the midst of many of the institutions which we currently regard as the functioning or semi-functioning elements of the EU. So they need to be passionate and they need to play their cards right. Don’t forget that one of the biggest personal votes got by any TD in the country was actually for Shane Ross in Dublin South. And that says something. While ideologically I come from a very different place to Sinn Féin, I have found it extraordinary the number of times recently that I have heard Sinn Féin articulating a view I agree with. I’m an entrepreneur. I believe in the capitalist system and yet so many people who I talk to suddenly say, “Christ, you know, we are agreeing with what these people are saying.” So that has got to be addressed. They’ve got to get their act together. What’s interesting — and I’m not the only person to be saying this — is that so far, Labour’s ministers have been surprisingly robust. The noises and sentiments coming from Ministers Howlin, Rabbitte, Burton and Quinn have been pretty impressive. The guy I do feel sorry for, and I said it in my column last week, is Michael Noonan because in some respects, he’s between a rock and a hard place. But having a meeting in a bus with the French finance minister (laughs), it got us nothing. And I spend a lot of time in America. I spent eight weeks on the road selling Slane Castle Irish whiskey and so many people that I talk to cannot believe what has been allowed to happen. There was an extraordinarily perceptive dark piece written by I think it was Michael Lewis in Vanity Fair. A lot of people read that. A lot of people talked to me about that and said you know, “Is this true?” And I said, “Well, unfortunately, maybe, yes. There may be some slight inaccuracies but…”
So this financial crisis has to be addressed. The current situation is unsustainable and we cannot allow, as a nation, our futures to be destroyed. Now, that is not to say it’s all dark. I listened to Brian Hayes on Vincent Browne last night and he kept talking about growth. Well, we’re not going to get growth unless this is addressed. But we can get growth. Lots of things can be done to get the ship afloat again. But not if we have fiscal torpedos still heading our way. It’s a very, very high-stakes game. On a positive side, the export sector is growing. There is a potential to generate lots of revenue in tourism, which of course is labour-intensive. But unless we deal with this, we are boxing in the dark. Look in the mirror, you guys, and understand why the people elected you. One thing that Morgan Kelly did say in his piece in the Irish Times was, “If you think Fianna Fail got a drubbing from the people, if you don’t step up to the plate, it’s nothing on what’s going to happen next.” And that actually is reality. There are a lot of people who still think denial is a river in
Egypt (laughs).