Alastair Campbell: On Brexit, the border, Trump, and his new novel

Coming with endorsements from one of the most unlikely trios you’ll ever happen upon – Bertie Ahern, Delia Smith and ex-Man Utd manager Tommy Docherty – and co-written with former Burnley chief executive Paul Fletcher, Alastair Campbell’s novel Saturday Bloody Saturday explores the social and political landscape of mid-’70s Britain.

The story focuses on hard-bitten football manager Charlie Gordon, the under-presure manager of an unnamed club, whose side have a must-win, away cup tie against Chelsea on the horizon. Meanwhile, as the UK prepares for an election, the IRA are plotting an attack on London. It all makes for a compelling yarn that should find considerable favour with those who like their social history intermingled with regular football allusions.

Notably, Gordon is a hard-bitten left wing Scot, characteristics that make me wonder if he’s based on Man Utd’s legendary former manager Alex Ferguson – an acquaintaince of one-time Labour spin doctor Campbell.

“Not really,” replies Campbell – friendlier and more jovial than one might expect – down the line from London, where he’s just left a BBC Radio interview with Adrian Chiles. “Obviously, if you know people, even subconsciously you might put stuff in. But I think the character is based on the fact that during that period, there were so many great Scottish managers: Shankley, Stein and then latterly, Dalglish and Souness.

“I mean, I support Burnley and Scotland – they’re my passions. So we wanted to do a Scot. In my head, when I’m imagining him physically, he’s a cross between Jimmy Adamson, Jock Stein and Brian Clough.”

That’s a very combustible combination.

“Well, I I think Jimmy Adamson was a very calm guy!” laughs Campbell. Saturday Bloody Saturday explores one of the most violent periods in the Northern conflict, and this year, of course, marks the 20th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, probably the greatest achievement of Campbell’s time in office. With the Northern executive currently in shutdown and continuing uncertainty over Brexit, Campbell must surely be concerned with the drift in Northern politics.

“Yes, absolutely,” he nods. “Tony Blair always used to say that a peace process moves forward or backwards, and I think we should be very wary of that. There’s a danger at the moment that it could go backwards, and I don’t really have the sense that this government isn’t as focused as it should be. The truth is that they’re absolutely consumed with Brexit – nothing else matters to them. Pardon my French, but it’s a total fucking disaster.”

Theresa May’s government, of course, is hamstrung in its approach to the North by the fact it’s relying on the support of the DUP for survival. And just to cement the situation as one gigantic throbbing headache, the Tories’ reliance on Arlene Foster and co. also adds an additional layer of complication to Brexit negotiations on the North.

“The fact is, we have the political system we’ve got,” says Campbell. “The public had a chance to change it in the referendum on the alternative voting system and they didn’t take it. I’m not criticising Theresa May for trying to form a government, but I do think the extent to which they are now reliant on this very small tail wagging the dog, I think is a real problem.

“In the Good Friday Agreement, it says that in the event of a crisis in the institutions – which there is now because they’re not up and running – the Irish and British governments become the arbitrator. Well, how can the British government be an arbitrator when it’s dependent on one of the two sides for its survival? ”

Another major talking point in UK politics lately has been the rise of Jeremy Corbyn – whose radical approach is seen by many of his followers as an antidote to Campbell’s former boss, Tony Blair. What does Campbell make of the current Labour leader?

“I’m finding it very frustrating,” he admits. “Put it this way – the Labour party has changed. It’s moved substantially to the left, and maybe that’s a reaction to inequality and the downside of globalisation, and I understand all that. But I would strongly suggest that at the moment, we have the worst and most incompetent government I’ve ever seen – and yet she’s still ahead of Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister in the polls. Also, I just find frankly unacceptable that recently, he didn’t even raise Brexit during Prime Minister’s Questions.

“It’s the single biggest challenge facing the country, and he doesn’t even find the time for it.”

On the subject of Brexit, Campbell has admired the Irish government’s approach, even singling out Helen McEntee for praise for a recent radio appearance (“she talked more sense in one interview than our government have done for the past year”). Notably, Tony Blair has re-entered the public debate on the issue, which has been met with considerable scepticism due to his support for the Iraq war.

“I actually had a cup of tea with him earlier,” says Campbell. “He’d just got off the plane from America. I do still see him quite a lot and we’re both still motivated by many of the same things. With Brexit, it’s funny – when we were in Downing Street, I was never as pro-European as him. But the thought of losing what we’re losing at the moment is making me more angry and agitated.

“So there’s that, and obviously we’ve got shared concerns about the direction of the Labour party. Of course, you have professional relationships, but I’d say Tony was a good friend. In terms of his legacy on Iraq, he knows just how controversial it is. But I think he looks at what’s happening in Syria at the moment, and he would say that’s partly a consequence of learning the wrong lessons from Iraq.

“His view is that where you have these really difficult issues, you do have to confront them. Listen, he understands a lot of people are still angry, but it’s not going to stop him from intervening in public debate.” Last Xmas, I caught Campbell’s fascinating online chat with Black Mirror creator Charlie Brooker, in which they discussed politics and satire. Of course, during his stint in Downing Street in the ’90s, Campbell earned a reputation as Machiavelli incarnate, which led to him being the basis of the supernaturally profane spin doctor, Malcolm Tucker, in Armando Iannucci’s classic satire The Thick Of It.

Campbell has seemed to be somewhat sceptical of Iannucci’s work in the past, suggesting it contributes to people’s cynicism about politics. Does he feel the same about Brooker’s output?

“Well, I’m very fond of Malcolm Tucker!” he laughs. “I didn’t like In The Loop, but that wasn’t because I didn’t like the character – I just didn’t think it worked as a film. But I think Malcolm Tucker is a creation of genius. No, I don’t think Charlie’s work contributes to cynicism about politics. I think his politics are probably quite similar to mine: left of centre, pro-European, feels a bit homeless at the moment. He’s got an incredible quirky mind, for sure.”

What does Campbell make of the ongoing horror show that is the Trump presidency?

“I find the whole thing hideous,” he replies. “He’s beyond any of the worst caricatures you could imagine. What I find terrifying is that the American people elected him in the full knowledge of what he was. Lots of people are saying there’s no way he’ll survive – but they’re the same people who said there was no way he was going to win. I think we’re living in very dark times at the moment and he’s a very big part of it.” Finally, going back to Saturday Bloody Saturday’s football theme – as a diehard Burnley fan, what does Campbell makes of the club’s current Irish contingent?

“Well, Stephen Ward has been out, which is a problem,” he says. “He gave us one of the best moments of the season, with his goal against Chelsea on the first day. Jeff Hendrick has been good, although Robbie Brady being out for the whole season has been a really big blow. But Burnley’s always had a good Irish tradition, north and south.

“One of the reasons I enjoyed writing the novel so much is that even though the club’s not Burnley, it allows you to relive that era in football. I’m not saying it’s better or worse now – but it is very different.”

Saturday Bloody Saturday is out now, published by Orion.