There is no pomp with the Lord Mayor of Belfast, Councillor Micky Murray. Dressed in smart casual attire, and without his Chain of Office, the Alliance Party man sits behind his desk in City Hall for this interview with Hot Press.

The one-time goth has a right to feel proud about being the first openly gay person to hold this key position.

“It shouldn’t have taken until 2024,” he says, “for the capital city of Northern Ireland – the second biggest city on the island of Ireland – to have an openly gay Lord Mayor. It’s not something I take lightly. But I am very proud that I am the very first openly LGBT mayor.”

The good news is that his emergence is not an isolated case. He lists off a ream of names of progressive young politicians, including some who are LGBTQ+, who are coming to the fore in the North.

“There weren’t any of us,” he says. “And then there was me and Kurtis Dixon in Lisburn and Pete Byrne in Newry. This year has been one of the most diverse years ever for mayors across the North.”

But, of course, you don’t have to be gay to represent a changing dynamic.

“You also have Lillian [Sinola-Barr] in Derry as well,” he says, referring to the first ever black mayor in Northern Ireland. “Me and Lillian have a great relationship. And there’s Ciarán [McQuillan], who’s in his early twenties, up in Causeway Coast and Glens. So, it is quite a diverse year for mayors in the North.”

Diverse in lots of different ways, that is.

“I want to show people that I’m more than just my sexuality,” Micky adds. “I’m more than just my political views on equality.”

No better place to start than here…

Jason O’Toole: Why did you begin to take an interest in politics?

I was involved in the equality campaigns around LGBT, from quite a young age, and started taking part in Pride when I was about 14. At that point, because we’d got civil partnerships in 2005, we were talking mostly about marriage equality. I then went and worked in the homeless sector for a while. At the same time, I was working in the youth sector, on a programme called WIMPS, and it stood for Where Is My Public Servant? And that was about young people holding politicians to account. I learned a lot more about elected politics and became a much better campaigner. So then, I started working with Belfast Pride. I was on the board for a couple of years.

Would the Alliance Party have been an unusual choice growing up?

It just made sense. I ended up joining in, I think, 2013, and got involved in the LGBT wing of the party. I settled in with the Alliance Party because I thought it was the party that connected most with my belief system and what I was passionate about.

Can you tell me about your background?

I come from a very mixed family. My mum’s side is from a unionist background. My dad’s side would be from a nationalist background. I was on a peace line, but it wasn’t a peace line where there were segregation walls. So, my street was quite mixed. From my street up was predominantly nationalist-Catholic. My street down was predominantly loyalist-unionist.

Was it a difficult balancing act?

For me, being a wee bit of a goth and hanging about in the city centre, it didn’t matter where you came from or what school you went to or whatever your background was. We all just created this community. And there’s something really beautiful about that because you see people for who they are, and not what their community dictates. So, I moved from hanging outside City Hall to inside City Hall now.

Is part of the appeal that there was no religious agenda involved in the Alliance Party?

Yeah, we had people from all backgrounds – different religions, different communities, people from all over the world. And that was something that resonated with me. The Alliance Party was built in the 1970s not as a non-sectarian party, but an anti-sectarian party.

At what point did you start to think of yourself as gay?

I sort of always knew – I didn’t always have a word for it. So I think at probably around 9 or 10, I accepted the fact but still didn’t know what it was. It wasn’t until I was in secondary school, probably around 12 or 13, that I really had a word for it and was able to accept that part of myself. And then from around 14, I started coming out to friends.

And to your parents?

Yeah. I’ve had a really positive coming out story. My friends, my family have all been really accepting and encouraging. And that’s not the case for a lot of people. I’m very privileged to have had that experience. I think coming out now is a lot different. There’s a lot more acceptance in society.

You must have been conscious of Ian Paisley’s ‘Save Ulster from Sodomy’ campaign.

Yeah, well, I was born in 1992. So I was born after his movement started, but – especially being involved in the LGBT equality movement – I was always very aware of what was being said by the DUP and reps like that. And what is still being said to this day.

It must be very upsetting.

I think what upsets me most is the inability for elected reps to understand the consequences of what they say. You look at the trans community here, a minority within a minority, and the [negative] language that’s used when talking about them. A lot of right wing politicians talk about trans people as if they are some creature rather than an everyday person or as if they are some kind of anomaly. That’s very personal. So that’s what upsets me most.

In a Hot Press Interview, Ian Paisley Jr. famously told me he was repulsed by homosexuality.

I remember. You know, potentially members of his family, members of the community he was elected to represent and some members of his party identify as LGBTQ. So it’s a lack of understanding and a lack of wanting to understand as well.

What age were you when you had your first gay experience?

Oh, what is the legal age? 16? Yeah, probably around 16.

Were you ever curious about women?

I did date a couple of girls. And they’re still friends of mine. It never went very far. It was only ever a couple of dates or a couple of weeks here and there. And I think a lot of people have that moment of exploration when they just test the water. But I was always very sure that I was gay.

There must have been a tremendous atmosphere in City Hall on the night you were elected Lord Mayor.

We were turning people away because so many people showed up. And that doesn’t usually happen. Titti Von Tramp, who’s a very well-known [now retired] drag queen, came in full drag. As I sat in the chair, there was this almighty cheer from the public gallery and from outside of the Rotunda. I was blown away by it.

So is Belfast a good place to be gay or is the scene a bit too small and provincial?

It’s a good place to be gay. The scene is small, but it’s vibrant. There’s a lot happening. So whether you want to just go out and drink and party, or you want to go out and see the drag scene or get involved in the LGBT sector, there’s so much diversity within the scene itself. You know, there’s now game nights, there’s social clubs, there’s sporting clubs. Show Some Love is an organisation that I work with quite closely. They’re one of my charities this year – they run a charity that provides direct aid to those in need, but they do that stuff quietly.

They also run something called Sunday Service.

It happens maybe once a month. And it’s not anti-religion or anti-church. It’s just an alternative space for queer people to spend time on a Sunday morning. And we have a guest speaker who talks about different topics. In recent weeks, I had Stuart Milk, Harvey Milk’s nephew, over in Belfast. And then me and Kate Nash, the singer, have become quite close. So I had Kate Nash do it for them recently. And she’s done a lot around the feminism movement being trans-inclusive.

Have you ever smoked marijuana?

I have – twice! Probably not the coolest response. I can’t even remember when it was, but I know the number is twice. I don’t think there’s a huge issue with marijuana. It needs to be legalised, at the very least for medicinal purposes. The way we treat drugs – and especially addiction – is really behind the times. When I worked in the homeless sector, I specialised in addiction, mainly alcoholism. And so many people who are taking substances, it’s treated like a police issue rather than a healthcare issue. I think that needs to be addressed.

How?

We need to look at things like safer injection spaces or overdose prevention facilities, whatever term you want to use, that have been working successfully all over the world since the ’70s, ’80s, ’90s. And it’s 2025, and we’re still having the conversation about, can we open one in Belfast? But it would really change how we support those people. We just need to look at drugs in general and how we deal with them. I’m not one of these people who’s like “legalise them all” because that’s not helpful. But marijuana doesn’t do the damage that people think it’s going to do. And if you look at places across the world who have legalised it, they have been able to control it and they’ve taxed it and used it as an income generation as well.

So would you be in favour of the Portuguese model?

I think the Portuguese model is probably one of the most successful models. No model is going to work everywhere. So, I think you look at something like the Portuguese model and think how would that work for a city like Belfast? Or how would that work for a city like London? It’s going to be different. The different environments have different needs and different solutions. I think the Portuguese model was very brave and it has paid off and it’s worked for them.

Chemsex is something that the authorities in Dublin are concerned about. Is that a feature on the scene in Belfast?

Probably not to the same extent. I’m not involved in that world so I wouldn’t be able to give you a well-rounded response or any in-depth knowledge. But it’s not something I come across regularly, so I don’t think it’s as much of a problem as it is in other parts of the world.

People seem slow to acknowledge the thrill of great sex.

Yeah, I mean, look at things like how we do RSE [Relationships and Sex Education] in schools. Sexual education in school is still very regressive. It’s not a stone’s throw away from, you know, “If you have sex, you will get pregnant and die.” Like that joke from Mean Girls, we’re not a stone’s throw away from that. It’s still very religious-based, and we need it to move to be more inclusive but also to empower people, to teach people, like, what is a healthy relationship? What is consent? What’s not consent? And teach people the power that they have.

So the only benchmark should be consent between two consenting adults?

Yeah.

Where would you say is the best gay scene of all?

Oh, I do like the Belfast scene. And I have been to quite a few places. I think one of my favourites is probably Gran Canaria. There’s just something for everyone, whether you want to go to a drag show and watch a cabaret all night, you could do that. If you want to go clubbing, you can do that. There’s a bar basically for everyone. The island itself is really beautiful. But I’m 33. I’ve done a year of no alcohol a couple of years ago. And so I go out less now than I used to. So for me, a lot of it is about where can I go and have, like, the craic and just enjoy the surroundings as well.

Did you feel you had a problem with it?

No, I had an issue where my spleen bled and that caused my liver to swell. I thought I either had a cold or Covid. So I just kept on testing for Covid and decided that I just had a really bad cold. And weeks went by and I got a really sore pain in my stomach. I went to the hospital and I was there for, like, eight days or something. And it turned out that my spleen had swollen and bled because of glandular fever, which only happens to one in like 100,000 people that get glandular fever. When I was drinking my spleen would get sore. So, I just stopped drinking for a year. Nothing’s really changed. I didn’t lose any friends – although I enjoy my weekends a lot better now because I get that much more in.

There is a fear that gay people in the US are going to be driven back into the closet by the current regime.

Yeah, people are really scared. I’ve spent a good bit of time in the US over the past three years or so. I have a lot of friends in the US. And there is a lot of anxiety about what’s happening. A lot of people think that it’s just this sort of pushback against trans rights, or it’s just this on abortion – it’s never just “something”. There’s always an agenda. And once they get pushed back on one level of equality, they’ll push back and push back and push back.

I’m guessing you’ve no time for Trump?

I’m not a fan at all. He represents the worst of politics and social media. A lot of people voted for him, but I think that’s more so to do with how the right wing harnessed social media and used it to get their message across by being very populist. So when it comes to Trump, I don’t think he’s world leader material.

There seems to be a deep hatred of the LGBTQI+ community in the way that Trump has targeted DEI policies.

I don’t know if Trump knows exactly what he believes. I think he knows what is popular with his voter base and he’s willing to go down that road. I’m not sure if he has any strong opinions on it. He’s attacking DEI while he’s appointed more openly LGBT people to higher ranks in office than any other president.

Is the power of social media and the fact that they have effectively stolen so much data from people, not a very dangerous thing?

The social media companies have a lot to be responsible for in terms of how people treat others online. The stealing of data, it should be treated the same way as what paper-based journalism was doing like with the phone tapping. And that was the stealing of data. Social media companies stealing data off people is the new phone tap, in my view.

One view is that the likes of X are publishers and should be forced the follow the same rules and regulations of the like The Guardian, the BBC or Hot Press.

If you look at female politicians  – what’s allowed to be said to them online is just atrocious and abusive. Elon Musk has the biggest platform available to him of anyone in the world. That’s where a lot of people get their main news sources. There’s a responsibility there, not just on X as an organisation, but Elon Musk as well, as the person leading this platform to ensure that it’s not used to whip up political tensions. You’re like, “Well, how low is the bar for community standards – that like death threats and threats of violence and people, urging people to pile on people on social media and bully them?”

Have you ever received any death threats?

I’ve had a lot of crap. People have said things on social media where, if taken seriously, could be considered a death threat. But I don’t think any of them have had any actual level of [genuine] threat behind them. Nothing has come through official channels.

Did the referendum on same-sex marriage in the Republic make you feel more open to the idea of a united Ireland?

I don’t know. I did go down and campaign. I’m part of that group within the Alliance Party that doesn’t have a strong view either way on the constitutional question. It’s not something that I worry about or actively campaign in favour if or against. I am one of those people who feels that borders create borders. I have my little patch of the city that I’m responsible for. As a councillor, my job is to make sure that life for those people is as good as it can be, but I also have the job as an elected councillor to look at the entire city of Belfast, especially in this role as Lord Mayor. You’re thinking about, how do I make life better in this city? That’s where my priorities lie.

But you must have some thoughts on it all?

This might not go down very well or be a popular story from either side of the argument – but people, when they were voting for the Good Friday Agreement, had the privilege of having that document tell them exactly what they were voting for. I think that’s what any reunification referendum needs to have.

There’s a lot of talking to be done first.We need to make sure that unionism is represented in that, that nationalism is represented, and that the others, for want of a better word, are too. I think when you’re looking at changing the whole future of a country, you need that to be as inclusive as possible and to represent as many people as possible and for no one to feel as if they’re being discriminated against. I know that is an incredibly difficult job. It’s going to be next to impossible.

So, we will eventually see a referendum?

I think it is inevitable that there will be a referendum at some stage. I don’t think there is the political support from Westminster now. I don’t think there’s the political support in the North for it either. I think there’s probably a growing support for it in the South. You need the Irish government, the British government and, to a certain extent, the Americans as well – all those people who bought into the Good Friday Agreement – to be on board to be able to have that referendum.

Are you optimistic that the liberalisation that has been taking place in Northern Ireland will continue?

I am. I think that we are moving forward as a society. Martin Luther King used to say, “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.” And I think that’s quite reflective of what happens in politics. I think society is always that little bit more progressive than politics and often leads the way where politics doesn’t. We are on that forward trajectory of becoming a more progressive society.

There are more self-declared atheists than ever in Northern Ireland, which has to be a good thing.

I think the majority of people are atheists or agnostics. People aren’t as religious as they make out. People don’t generally go to church and read their Bibles and pray every night and say thanks before meals. I think there’s a lot more people who are agnostic and atheist than people make out. Maybe they’re just not willing to say it, or maybe they just haven’t even realised that that’s what their belief system is.

Where do you stand on the redress being paid by the religious orders responsible for mother and baby homes to other forms of abuse, including sex abuse?

I think the actions that took place during that time are disgusting and there needs to be some sort of responsibility taken in those cases. I know there’s a lot of work going on at the moment, through Stormont as well as through the Dáil on this. And those victims and survivors need to have their moment and need to be recognised for what happened.

Would you confiscate the lands or property from the Catholic Church to collect money for victims?

I don’t know if that’s legal. The Catholic Church is one of the wealthiest organisations in the world. They probably wouldn’t need to give away land to pay their bills.

What’s your thoughts on what has been happening in Gaza?

It’s difficult to talk about the issue of Gaza without calling it out for being blatant genocide. The eradication of the people of Palestine is one of the biggest atrocities we’ve seen in the world and we’re watching it unfold daily in the press and online. There doesn’t seem to be the political leadership from anyone that’s actually addressing it. There was that brief ceasefire – for how long did that last? A couple of weeks. We’re watching it unfold in front of our eyes. It really is quite disgusting.  I’m watching it as someone in Belfast in a very privileged position. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be one of those people in Palestine who have lived there for generations, brought up your families there, who are now being attacked on a daily basis and have no idea where their next meal is [coming from] or if their family members are safe. It really is quite distressing to watch this be allowed to happen.

Why is the UK government so slow to call out the butchery of over 50,000 people and the ongoing theft of land in the West Bank?

Well, I can’t speak on behalf of the UK government, obviously. There was genuine optimism at getting a Labour government after so many years of Tory rule, but they’ve been quite disappointing.

You’ve been very supportive of the Oh Yeah Music Centre in Belfast. What sort of music do you like?

I have a musically eclectic mix, so even if I just bring up my Spotify, it goes from Sum 41, Armour to Kiss, Fall Out Boy. What else? Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, P!nk. You know, it’s everywhere and everything in between.

Would you have a favourite album that you know inside out?

Probably not. Like, if a song goes on the radio, I might know every single word to it, but I might not know who sings it or the name of the song.

What do you think of Kneecap?

I haven’t watched the movie. I haven’t really listened to any of their songs. So I probably can’t answer that.

Can you speak Irish?

No.

What about the increase in interest in speaking Irish, which has been accelerated by Kneecap.

I don’t think it was Kneecap that made it popular. I think it became popular before that. I think it’s great. I really do think that that sort of movement towards reclaiming the language of this island is great. I think that it makes you much more aware of the history of, like, how things are named. So, even Belfast, or even, like, you know, why Donegall Place, right outside City Hall has two L’s on it, but Donegal is spelt with one L – that was all anglicisation of the language. Yeah, I think it’s brilliant.

Would you like to become first minister in the future?

Definitely not, no. I love being a local councillor. I love the job that I do in Belfast City Council, being able to support local communities, make a difference in people’s lives.

Is there an example?

There was a group of teachers with the students from the local special educational needs school, Fleming Fulton, and they weren’t using Barnett’s Park on their daily time out with the kids. Someone came to me about two years ago and complained that the disabled access gate didn’t allow for bigger wheelchairs, and they had to go round the whole outside, to get in another gate. So, I got it upgraded to a more accessible gate. And then I saw the local special educational needs school using the park the other week and I was thinking, “You know, they’re there because I was able to get that gate installed.” So a lot of people don’t see what their councillors do, don’t care what they do, and never contact them. But I think local government is one of the most important levels of government that we have.