THE 12 INTERVIEWS OF XMAS: Steve Van Zandt on Bruce, Trump, Van & Darlene Love

There is no finer journalistic pleasure than talking to Steve Van Zandt, a man who if he weren't in the E Street Band would pay to see them every night such is his obvious love and respect for The Boss. He's also besotted with the Underground Garage, his syndicated radio show which airs here every Saturday afternoon on Dublin City FM and allows him to spin his favourite rock 'n' roll tunes, old and new. Even by his own perma-enthused standards, he was seriously looking forward to Croke Park, and "hooking up with some old friends" who, as it turned out, included Sunday's guest turn, Bono.
Always very gracious towards Hot Press - "Wherever you go, you want to be in the music magazine" - we were supposed to chat for 30 minutes but went waaaaaaay overtime.
Sadly, he was wrong about Trump having only a snowball's chance in hell of winning the election, although having dealt with The Donald himself he didn't reckon he was as bad as the rhetoric he'd been spouting. There will doubtless be the need for more stands like the one the E Street Band took in April when they pulled their North Carolina gig because of the state's hounding of transgender people.
Here's how the conversation went down...

“This has been our best tour since the original River one. We’re on fire and really looking forward to these Irish shows.”
Steve Van Zandt is enjoying a rare day at home with his wife, Maureen, in between the US and European legs of a tour that the E Street Band only knew about six weeks before it kicked off on January 16 in Pittsburgh’s Consol Energy Center.
“That’s got to be some kind of record,” Steve resumes. “This tour was the ultimate surprise; it literally didn’t exist at Thanksgiving. The first call I got from Bruce was on December 1 saying, ‘We’re going to do just one TV show to promote The River box’ and then Jon Landau, his manager went, ‘How the hell do we do one or two shows? Have we ever done one or two shows? No, we haven’t.’ So then it became, ‘Maybe it’ll be a couple of months.’ Then we thought, ‘Well, we can’t do America and not do Europe’, so it turned into a real tour that’s going to keep going till September. Knowing Bruce, we’ll probably still be out at Christmas!
“The audiences in America have been the most enthusiastic I’ve ever seen. I don’t know if it’s because this particular album is most people’s favourite – I’m referring to the three million hardcore fans who bought The River as opposed to the 17 million who visited for Born In The USA – or whether they’re valuing living rock ‘n’ rollers more because of all these awful deaths. We literally started off this tour with ‘Rebel Rebel’, three days later did ‘Take It Easy’ and a couple of nights back covered ‘Purple Rain’. David Bowie, Glenn Frey, Prince, Lemmy… it’s just been a ridiculous year for our people. Four of our most cherished and adventurous – five if you count Sir George Martin whose contribution to The Beatles was enormous. It does give you perspective, though, in terms of reminding you to make every day count.”
Steve admits to being kid-at-Christmas giddy when he got his hands on the Ties That Bind: The River box-set.
“I was overjoyed because – and I mean this sincerely – the double album of outtakes is to me some of our best stuff, ever. When we put the thing out originally it could have been a four-album set. It would have been an incredible record but of course no one, not even The Clash who managed three albums with Sandinista, had done that. The arrangements are amazing and I’m very proud of the production too.”
Steve’s great quote is that, “Every single outtake on The River was a lost argument. I was fighting for every single one of ‘em, y’know?”
“Yeah, I lost 27 arguments in a row!” he laughs. “Bruce has been taking these box-sets very seriously. Born To Run, Darkness… and now The River have been just terrific. Along with the outtakes, you’ve had entire concerts, documentaries that have been painstakingly compiled and brilliant artwork. They weren’t just tossed out there casually – Bruce doesn’t do anything casually!”
Bruce’s next revisiting of the past is his Born To Run autobiography, which hits shelves on September 27 and will doubtless be required reading on the E Street Band tour bus. Is Steve worried that it might contain some Keith Richard-style “Mick has a small penis” revelations?
“Bruce may disagree but, frankly, I don’t have to be concerned about that particular problem,” he chuckles again. “Let’s hope it’s all happy memories!”
Word has it that former Dublin resident and propper-upper of the Whelan’s bar, Jake Clemons, has been blowing up a storm on this tour.
“Yeah, he’s really been coming into his own,” Steve agrees. “The first tour was always going to be a little bit awkward. Distanced from what were certainly difficult circumstances he’s just improving and improving. Getting back to pretty much the basics of the band has been very rewarding, although I love the big band as well. The whole thing was so spontaneous that it’s been nothing but fun.”
Springsteen made global headlines in April when he announced he was pulling their Greensboro, North Carolina show in protest at the state’s so-called ‘bathroom law’.
“HB2 - known officially as the Public Facilities Privacy and Security Act - dictates which bathrooms transgender people are permitted to use,” a seriously miffed Bruce stated. “Just as important, the law also attacks the rights of LGBT citizens to sue when their human rights are violated in the workplace. No other group of North Carolinians faces such a burden. To my mind, it’s an attempt by people who cannot stand the progress our country has made in recognising the human rights of all of our citizens to overturn that progress. Right now, there are many groups, businesses, and individuals in North Carolina working to oppose and overcome these negative developments. Taking all of this into account, I feel that this is a time for me and the band to show solidarity for those freedom fighters. As a result, and with deepest apologies to our dedicated fans in Greensboro, we have cancelled our show. Some things are more important than a rock show and this fight against prejudice and bigotry - which is happening as I write - is one of them. It is the strongest means I have for raising my voice in opposition to those who continue to push us backwards instead of forwards.”
The entire E Street Band family, Steve says, supported the cancellation.
“It’s so annoying to be distracted by this ridiculous stuff that you would hope we are past, but we’re not,” he continues with a shake of his bandana-d head. “There’s people that just continue to look around and say, ‘I can’t discriminate against black people anymore.’ They’re still bugging women in half the states in America about certain things, but they can’t get away with that too much either. So, who’s the most vulnerable part of society that they can discriminate against? They find the gay and transgender people and it’s like, ‘Jesus Christ, when is this going to stop? When is it going to get into your thick, bigoted head that discrimination of any kind is un-American? It’s not what this country, or any country really, is about. There’s no place for it. Get a life.’ Being an original Barry Goldwater conservative meant literally ‘mind your own business’. It doesn’t mean ‘go into people’s bedrooms.’ It should be live and let live, man.”
Did he keep tabs on last year’s Irish Same-Sex Marriage Referendum?
“I did and may I say, ‘Well done, you!’ If only the same tolerance and common sense prevailed throughout all of the States.”
It’s sometimes overlooked that Steve is himself a social activist of long standing. In 1984, he assembled the 45-strong Artists United Against Apartheid who pissed the South African government off no end with ‘(Ain’t Gonna Play) Sun City’ and later handed over $1 million to anti-apartheid causes. He then worked to raise awareness of US military interference in Central America and penned ‘I Am A Patriot’ - And I ain’t no communist/ And I ain’t no capitalist/ And I ain’t no socialist/ And I ain’t no imperialist/ And I ain’t’ no democrat/ And I ain’t no republican/ I only know one party/ And it is freedom” – which Pearl Jam played live in Virginia when they added their voices to the HB2 protest.
“Yeah, they’ve been doing that fairly regularly,” Steve beams. “I’m always happy about that. Jackson Browne was the first one to start playing ‘I Am A Patriot’. It’s just one of those things that happened to catch everyone’s fancy. It’s from my more overtly political days. That and ‘Solidarity’, which ended up a hit in Jamaica for Black Uhuru strangely enough, were two philosophical songs that people can relate to.”
As a manner of the left-wing barricades you’d expect Steve to be vehemently anti-Trump, but he reckons that there are worse Republicans than The Donald.
“Trump is saying these things that he doesn’t really mean to chime with his ridiculous Republican base who are 65% evangelicals. I know him a little bit and he’s a very practical guy in the end. Trump is not nearly as scary as Ted Cruz who really does represent this religious extreme, this zealotry. They’re just such a drag. The Republicans aren’t going to get the Hispanic or black vote so it’s almost certainly going to be Hilary. There’s no real fear apart from the fear-mongering done by the religious right-wing.”
The latest of Steve’s umpteen different projects is BANG!, a documentary about ‘60s songwriting great Bert Berns.
“He’s not a household name, but what a story!” his number one fan enthuses. “He basically got into the business at the age of 31 and was dead by 37. During those years he wrote ‘Twist And Shout’, ‘Piece Of My Heart’, ‘Here Comes The Night’, ‘Hang On Sloopy’ and about 30 others. He produced The Drifters and Van Morrison and started his label. The first five things on it were all million-sellers. The guy was ridiculously talented and from that most exciting era. I belong in that Brill Building, man, you know? I love that idea of ten of these great songwriters churning them out and competing with each other. Burt Bacharach and Hal David over there, Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry over there… Carole King and Gerry Goffin… Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil… Leiber & Stoller, you know? Even the British Invaders visited the Brill Building at first. ‘Here Comes The Night’ was Bert and Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil wrote The Animals’ ‘We Gotta Get Out Of This Place’. The Beatles had a couple of Brill Building songs on their first album.”
Which is part of the reason that Paul McCartney joined Steve in campaigning for Bert to be inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame.
“Paul, who’s in the documentary, has always been a big champion, which I’m sure had something to do with the nominating committee this year deciding that the Ahmet Ertegun Lifetime Achievement Award should go to Bert. There’s also a Broadway show being developed, so he’s gone from being completely unknown to somebody who’s recognised as being one of the greats. That’s wonderful for his daughter who was a guest of honour.”
This year’s ceremony went a little off script when during his induction speech veteran singer Steve Miller accused the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame of disrespecting artists.
“Every year there’s some controversy associated with it,” Steve reflects. “Richie Blackmore couldn’t agree to be in the same room as the rest of Deep Purple, and the same thing happened with Peter Cetera and Chicago. The happy ending this year is that after somewhat acrimoniously leaving the band, Bun E Carlos put aside the bad blood and drummed with Cheap Trick. It’s odd, they’re one of the great bands and people are still discovering them.”
Having sprinkled his magic production dust on ‘Baby Please Don’t Go’, ‘Here Comes The Night’ and ‘Brown Eyed Girl’, Bert Berns’ relationship with Van went spectacularly sour.
“Van was upset that Bert had made him too commercial with ‘Brown Eyed Girl’, which of course is one of the greatest records of all time. Them had broken up and Van was doing nothing when Bert found him. To be honest, I don’t think he’d have gotten to Astral Weeks if the relationship hadn’t happened. I was very happy to see Van coming around and finally giving Bert Berns the credit he deserves.”
With Ben E. King, Solomon Burke, Wilson Pickett, Ronald Isley and Cissy Houston also contributing, BANG! is a must-watch that’s already being tipped for an Oscar nod. Steve also got to indulge his fanboy tendencies with the assembling of Introducing Darlene Love, the ironically titled first solo album by the 20 Feet From Stardom woman who’s sung on hundreds of other people’s hits, but never had one of her own. Until now that is.
“It took me a year - not every day but I got obsessed with it. I always take producing records seriously, but when it’s the debut record of someone who’s been around for 50 years it has to spectacular! We did it through my Wicked Cool label and ended up signing Darlene to Columbia, which was terrific. I asked Elvis Costello for a song and 48 hours later he came back with four. Jim Webb, who hadn’t written for anybody in ten or twenty years, came up with a song. Cynthia Weil and Barry Mann wrote a song for her. Bruce gave us ‘Night Closing In’ and ‘Just Another Lonely Mile’, both of which sound like they could have come from the Brill Building 50 years ago. They have that classic ‘60s feel.”
“When I first heard he was writing for me, I was like, ‘Oh, my God! We’ll have a song from Bruce! I can’t wait! I can’t wait!’” 74-year-old Love cooed. “When they came in, I just loved them. I listened to them, put them into my mind and made them Darlene Love songs.”
The video for lead single ‘Forbidden Nights’ finds a disgustingly well-preserved Love driving round Asbury Park, New Jersey and encountering Elvis, Bill Murray, Joan Jett, a surfboard-carrying Paul Shafer, David Letterman and Bruce Springsteen who’s mock wringing Steve Van Zandt’s neck.
“Yeah, wasn’t that fun? I usually give modern technology a wide berth, but somebody said the new iPhone6 is actually of good enough quality that you can shoot something and use it. I said to everyone, ‘Just go out, take your phone and have your daughter, your son or your wife film you doing something silly’, and we’ll stick it in the video, which will take exactly five minutes. Nobody travels anywhere, nobody has to worry about make-up or clothes or concept. It was so easy to do. And, you’re right, Darlene still looks fantastic and is the greatest singer you’ll ever hear in your life.”
Lilyhammer may have been cancelled - boo! - but Steve has no intention of quitting the TV game with two projects currently in development.
“One is going through the normal channels, but the other, a 30-minute comedy called Tio Papi, I’m trying to independently finance,” he explains. “Most of the entertainment world now is tragically run by bean counters and lawyers and everything takes forever. I can cut through all the commissioning bullshit and do a pilot for a million-and-a-half, which in the investment world is not a whole lot of money. Trouble is those guys are only interested at the moment in movies and Broadway. It makes sense for them to invest in TV because that’s where the adult entertainment is these days. The movie business, with all its comic books and video games, is for kids now. I know it, you know it but the big banker people as of yet don’t. It’s a case of chipping away until the system changes, which eventually it has to.”
Required listening for any rock ‘n’ roll aficionado is Little Steven’s Underground Garage, which airs every Saturday from 3pm to 5pm on Dublin City 103.2 FM, with a Sunday night repeat at 8pm. The playlist is eclectic, often obscure and always good.
“There’s a band from Philadelphia called Soraia who we’ve been playing a lot,” he concludes. “The Shelters from LA have an amazing record out produced by Tom Petty who’s reunited his band from before the Heartbreakers, Mudcrutch. So we’ve classic artists like him, Cheap Trick and Santana on the show alongside these really cool new bands who’ll hopefully benefit from being heard in all the markets we’re in.”