Barack Obama says there is "no military rationale" for Israel's attacks on Gaza at Dublin event

Former US President Barack Obama opened up about his stance on Gaza, the lessons of his political career and more during his event in Dublin.

Hosted by Irish Times columnist Fintan O'Toole, Obama spoke to a sold-out crowd at the 3Arena on Friday night.

Among the various points of conversation with O'Toole, Obama said he and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu were "never the best of friends."

"Oftentimes, politicians have a vested interest in maintaining the notions that it is simply 'us versus them' and 'it's their fault,' because that helps keep them in power," Obama said.

"It's a cynical game, and I watched it throughout my presidency. I was not always popular in that region [the Middle East] because I called them out."

Amid discussions of the political discourse surrounding the situation, Obama said, "It is important to say right now, children can't starve."

"There is no military rationale for continuing to pummel what is already broken," Obama said.

"It is unacceptable to ignore the human crisis that is happening inside of Gaza, and it is necessary for us to insist that both sides have to find a path in which a Palestinian state and autonomy exist side by side with a secure Israel."

O'Toole brought up the Troubles, which he said "was driven by a mutual sense of victimhood, much of it historically justified" which "can create this kind of tribalized sense of a zero-sum game." O'Toole described the conflict in Gaza as "an ever more extreme version of zero-sum game in which our suffering is someone who gives us license to inflict suffering on other people without really having to consider their humanity."

He asked Obama his thoughts on the matter, to which Obama said, "What's happening in Gaza is a perfect example of the prison of the past."

Obama explained it was a matter of remembering and understanding historical truths in order to "break the cycle" of willful ignorance of the past, an issue that he saw while president among "players that are still on the stage now."

"Folks outside of the conflict oftentimes will face or erase or ignore the very real history that led the Jewish people to insist on a homeland of their own, because of their historic vulnerabilities that resulted in Europe in the systematic slaughter of millions," Obama said.

"If you don't acknowledge that story, if you don't acknowledge that truth, then it is difficult for the Jewish people or Israelis to listen, because that's such a profound truth for them."

Obama said the same is true when it comes to those who refuse to address the mass displacement and mistreatment of Palestinians.

"What is also true is that when Israelis refuse to acknowledge that Palestinians were displaced from their lands, often violently, and that what has occurred since then has been intolerable for all people and thus they have a justified reason to be angry and frustrated— if you can't acknowledge that, then Palestinians can't listen," Obama said.

He concluded that the starting point for discussing the political situation in Gaza must be the acknowledgement of historical truths. He said that the reason the problem of refusing to hear others' histories exists in the first place is "a tendency to insist on moral innocence."

"We think any acknowledgement that our motivations and our actions are anything less than 100% pure will somehow weaken our claims and put us in vulnerable positions," Obama said.

"So we refuse, and when you continue to refuse the truth and reality over when your story whitewashes the past, eventually you lose touch with reality and it puts you in a position where you are willing to dehumanise others and say that anything is justified to win.

"Whether it's the Troubles or racial conflict in America or the deadly, long-running tragedy in the Middle East, it requires each of us to look at it ourselves squarely and recognise that we have been part of this tragedy, that our actions are not always perfect or blameless."

Obama and O'Toole went on to discuss fears of a rising authoritarian government under Trump in the US. At one point, O'Toole asked Obama about perceptions of "complacency" from the Democratic Party.

"Look, I am famously calm," Obama said.

"Those who worked with me in my administration would confirm that my default is, 'Don't panic. Humanity has been through this. Things could be worse. We will figure this out.' And so I have been very resistant in sounding alarms or hysterics.

"What I think is indisputable is that basic norms, habits of the heart, have been framed around the world in places that we thought were very sturdy democracies, and that includes the United States. I think we make a mistake in thinking that there's some pure version of democracy that we possessed, and then anything short of that is a crisis. Because America was never a perfect democracy. It wasn't black people, it wasn't for women, it wasn't for LGBTQ people."

He described issues of gerrymandering and constitutional loopholes which often make voting unfair in the United States, describing "imperfections in our democracy" while adding, "There's no such thing as a perfect democracy, it's always a work in progress."

He went on to describe a level of "democratic backsliding" that exists "on both sides" under the Trump administration.

"For example, a core principle that was not a Republican or a Democratic idea, but was an American idea, was that our military is not politicised," Obama said.

"It's a pretty important concept. When I was president, there were Joint Chiefs. I did not know their political opinions. I was pretty certain that the Pentagon generally was not raving liberal. But I didn't ask them, 'did you vote for me?' And I didn't fire them if they didn't, because my working assumption was that they had fidelity to the Constitution.

"And what that meant was the military was not taking sides. That is a basic principle of democracy. The same is true with respect to our Justice Department. You don't politicise the justice system, because when you start doing that, you erode people's trust and their faith in whether the law has been impartial."

He then went on to discuss the "basic principle" of freedom of speech. Without naming names, he seemed to take a dig at President Trump's frequent criticism of public figures who speak out against him.

"The President of the United States is a powerful position," Obama said.

"Every time somebody says something bad about you, you don't say, 'Let's go target them in some way.' When I was president, I didn't enjoy some things that Fox News said about me, and I didn't enjoy having to waste my time for several months trying to convince people that I was born where I was born."

During Obama's first term as president, many right-leaning individuals and media sources questioned his birthplace and citizenship, falsely asserting he was not a natural-born citizen and thus ineligible to be president according to the US constitution. Trump was one of the most vocal proponents of these conspiracies.

"But the consensus was that the government has no business trying to censor people or punish them for opinions that are contrary to whoever is ruling," Obama said.

"If you have people with authority and people of power who are willing to challenge those norms, to break that consensus, they can do a lot of damage pretty quickly without people paying attention to it. It sounds like just one more controversy, just more fuss, more politicians fighting in Washington. You think, 'this has nothing to do with me,' and they keep doing for a year, two years, three years, and more and more, norms are broken over time, qualitatively the character of that democracy changes.

"There may still be elections, there may still be some semblance of a free press, but suddenly the atmosphere is different. The Civic conversation is different. People are intimidated, people are fearful. People aren't sure whether they should challenge power or speak truth to power. Something precious has been lost, and those in power are able to entrench themselves and act with greater impunity, and by the time people are paying attention to it, it's too late."

In concluding words, Obama said he believes the key to taking on the troubles of today's world is to listen to others.

"What I would attribute to much of my success is not talking so much and listening," Obama said.

"I think there is a tendency for idealistic young people to come in and want to tell people what they should want and what they should like. And lo and behold, it turns out that it's really useful to go to people and say, 'Hey, what's your story? What do you believe? What do you think?' And when you do that, there is a power in hearing people's stories. First of all, you learn something. Second of all, when people feel seen and heard, that builds trust, particularly when you then share part of your story and why you do what you do."

He added that conceiving conversation — such as taking comics off air, a hint at Jimmy Kimmel's recent suspension — is a tool of oppression.

"That's the reason why people who are repressive will go after storytellers and comics and artists, because when social trust is built, in conversations at community levels between people who may not initially trust each other. That's where power comes from."

In parting words, O'Toole asked Obama about the relevance of a quote from Martin Luther King: "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice."

"I'd emphasize the long part," Obama said.

"The arc of the moral universe bends towards justice, but it does not bend by itself. It bends because we grab it and we pull it in the direction of justice. And it's not always easy, and it's not always comfortable, and sometimes it's despairing and we lose, and then we have to fight off cynicism and bitterness when it doesn't work out as we had hoped right away. But the fight itself? What a glorious matter, to affirm our best impulses."