telling it like it is

Within a week or two of this interview appearing in hotpress the top of the American pop charts may be a battle site between two teen queens. That s Christina Aguilera and Ireland s Samantha Mumba.

The seventeen-year-old Drumcondra-born Mumba s single, Gotta Tell You , is currently rocketing up the Billboard charts and seems set to surpass the number 2 position achieved by the same single in the British charts.
Currently it s the best-selling single this year in Ireland. Not bad for your first six months as a recording artist! Samantha Mumba is taking on teen-divas Aguilera, Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears on their own turf and, if not yet winning, she s rapidly gaining ground.
Clearly, this is another phenomenal success story for manager-extraordinaire Louis Walsh, who now is, arguably, the single most influential person in pop music on this side of the Atlantic, given that he s had a similar level of success with Boyzone, Westlife and Ronan Keating as a solo act.
Of all Walsh s acts, the success to date of Samantha Mumba is based on sheer talent. Mumba can sing. Beautifully. And soulfully. In fact, as she sits in a rehearsal studio in North London, on a wet October afternoon, doing effortlessly flawless acoustic takes of her next single Body II Body for a forthcoming Top Of The Pops programme, she and her rhythm guitarist may just as well be performing in a small soul or r n b club.
Boyzone member Keith Duffy arrives mid-rehearsal to film an interview with Samantha for his BBC TV show. Thanks be to Jaysus, they didn t ask Boyzone to do acoustic sets! he jokes.
The encounter between Duffy and Mumba is an infectiously good humoured one. The director asks Duffy to make his entrance into the room again and walk up and surprise Samantha from behind. Keith retorts, I m a Catholic, we don t do that kind of thing! , hugging Mumba to say hello. Samantha Mumba dissolves into helpless laughter. Mumba also cracks up giddily during the final take of the song, admitting that she s completely knackered having been on the interview treadmill since 7.30 am.
It s now 5pm but she s got just one more interview to do. Then it s back to her hotel to crash out , before flying back to Dublin to do The Late, Late Show.
As we pull out two chairs to get started on that final interview, Mumba says that she s absolutely delighted that hotpress which isn t really a pop magazine is interested in her at all.
Delighted maybe but she shouldn t be at all surprised. Samantha Mumba, as you will soon see, is quite a forceful, self-confident and precocious young woman. Much like the face of modern Ireland, in fact.

Joe Jackson: You may soon be battling against Aguilera for the number one slot in America. How does that make you feel?
Samantha Mumba: That competition is healthy. If the likes of Christina weren t there it d be too easy! The sense of competition drives me, makes me work harder, without a doubt.
So do you have pictures of all your rivals Aguilera, Simpson, Spears pinned to your bedroom wall?
Yeah, they make up a dartboard and I think I m going to topple them all! Nah, I m only joking!
Unlike all your rivals in that list, you re black. And from Ireland. Do you think this mix may help you break America?
Definitely. My music is r n b/pop, obviously, but there is a sharper r n b edge to it because I am black. The fact that I m black, then when I open my mouth to talk and people realise God, she is from Ireland that leaves people culturally confused! They don t know what to make of me. But they remember the mix, because it is so unusual. And the Irish population in America, have been brilliant, behind me 110%.
The novelty value of being black and Irish could wear off.
Absolutely. Unless it s backed by good music. And not just one or two hit singles. That s what we were very aware of putting together my first album, Gotta Tell You, which I m very happy with. But simply being black and Irish though it s helping me, initially, is not something I could just coast along on. It d be stupid to think I could.
You ve always said that the mix of being black and Irish was never a problem as a child. Even so, Mariah Carey who you ve also been compared to has spoken about the pain of feeling she belonged to neither a black or white community. Can you identify with any of that?
Those feelings haven t effected me yet. Though they may creep up some day, who knows? But I am just Irish! I don t think of myself as being half-of-one-half-of-another. But, in terms of my own family, I think it s different for girls than boys. I ve got a little brother, and though he wouldn t exactly get bullied, he d get some slagging from schoolmates. I never had that because I never took crap. The girls loved my hair because it was really curly and something to play with, at lunchtime. And the boys fancied me or were afraid of me. But then I ve always had a strong character, maybe even moreso when I was small.
So racism hasn t been an issue?
If I had encountered any kind of racism it s not something I d hide. But then maybe I ve just been lucky. And I definitely don t encounter racism in the music business.
Your dad comes from Zambia and your mom is from Dublin. But they re separated?
Yeah. Just under a year. Well, they ve been separated a long time but my dad hasn t been living at home for a year.
When did you first realise my parents are not really together, or in love ?
Since I was small. And the older I got, the more I knew there were problems.
Was drink one of those problems, in terms of your dad?
It was. A few years ago maybe it would just have been drink. But when you do it so long it starts to really effect your personality. Though this is not something I d want to go into in much detail. I d speak about it anytime but I hate the fact that my mam d be embarrassed if people (knew about) things like that. But they are separated.
Did your mom kick your dad out?
Yeah. If she hadn t, I would have. It just wasn t fair on anybody. Nobody was happy.
Are you still in touch with your dad?
Well, I hardly ever see my mam or my brother at all! I m hardly ever home because of my career. But he s actually in London and I ve seen him recently. And I keep in touch. The odd time. But it wouldn t be on an ongoing basis.
Do you feel close to your dad?
In ways, yes. Because I was very, very close to him when I was little. But I ve grown up now and definitely feel estranged.
Do you feel any sense of loss or loneliness?
No. But then everything has been so busy over the past year that I don t really have time to stop and think about everything. My main thing right now is looking after my mum and my brother.
Do you now feel, at seventeen, that is your responsibility?
I wouldn t see it as my responsibility but I would like to think that if my mom or brother had a problem, I d look after them.
So the fact that you have moved into a high-profile and hopefully high-earning job is a big plus in terms of your family.
Totally. That s why I see myself as a business-woman as well as a singer. I won t take crap from anyone at that level either. This is my career.
Do you ever feel God, I miss the family unit ?
No. Because, although you couldn t meet a nicer man than my dad, when he s sober, I ve seen too much of the other side to miss it.
How has all this impacted on your drinking habits?
I do drink but I definitely will not become an alcoholic. I drink wine and shorts but I hardly ever drink when I m away from home. But when I m in Dublin I would go out with my mates on a bender!
Do you ever fear that you might go as far into drinking as your dad did?
That will never happen. I drink for the laugh. I don t drink because I need a drink. And I ll never let it get to that stage. I definitely wouldn t sit on my own and have a few drinks. And I think it s better that I saw what can happen if you drink too much. Especially in terms of the music business, where you can get carried away, go to all the parties, take whatever s on offer. But I have to look after myself. I couldn t cope with drinking every night and feeling crap, getting up early in the morning doing interviews. That would be unprofessional as well. It may have been the way in the Irish music business in the old days. But it s not cool anymore to drink to excess.
Do you have contractual obligations not to drink too much?
If I was drinking a lot and it was affecting my work if, say, I was doing bad interviews, not showing up, being late all the time then it wouldn t be good management if they ignored that. Louis would definitely cop-me-on. But it hasn t got to that stage and it wouldn t.
I did read one article about Christina, Britney, Jessica, you and Billie Piper and it said that Billie, even at seventeen, suffered kidney failure as a result of over-partying .
I haven t suffered kidney failure! But, let s face it, in Ireland you do get served in an off-licence from the year dot! It s grand! And everybody has the fake ID that your friend will make, on the computer for you!
So, are you, as a potential role model for fans in their early teens, saying it s cool to be locked at fourteen?
Not at all. Because, as I say, I ve seen what drink can do. And I am a role model so I have to be careful. But, on the other hand, I m not going to lie to people who look up to me and say, I m an angel. I don t drink. And make them feel bad if they do. You do drink growing up. It s part of the whole, natural, growing-up process. Especially in Dublin. But, as for now, I don t go to the showbiz parties. I am very choosy about all that. I don t want anyone to say Oh Samantha Mumba, she d be there for the opening of an envelope!
You said earlier, about those showbiz parties, that you don t want to partake of whatever is on offer . How do you respond when people offer you, say, cocaine?
I m very anti-drugs. Drugs are something I ve never tried.
Have you seen friends wasted by drugs?
I don t have any friends who would be addicted to drugs but I have friends who would have tried ecstasy, coke. And I have been in places where I was offered coke. It s very fashionable. But my mam was always anti-drugs and, to tell you the truth, I don t understand why you d need cocaine. Jesus, drink is more than enough for me. Drugs are definitely something I don t want to get into.
Even so, Samantha, you and I know high-profile people on the Irish rock and pop scene who probably said the same thing when they were seventeen and still have relatively clean-cut images but who would now claim they need, for example, cocaine to keep up with the pace in the music business.
I know them, too. But it s a load of rubbish, as far as I m concerned. They should cop on. It s too easy an excuse. At certain parties, it is cool to do coke and everybody is doing it and having a great time. So I can see why people may feel what the hell, I ll do it. But, as I say, the whole showbiz party thing isn t my scene. That s part of the reason I d rather avoid it all. And though some other people may say they turn to drugs like cocaine because of the pressures of the business as in touring and so on, I see that, too, as unprofessional. If it all gets too much for you, tell your record company I can t handle this. Don t just go off your head on drugs. That s a cop-out.
What role do record companies have to play in this?
If your record company know you re on drugs and don t do something to help you even though they accept that this may make you a liability in the long run then you should ask yourself serious questions about your record company. Say to them if you continue to push me through these hoops, selling myself, then soon you ll have nothing to sell. If I, personally, got to a stage where the pressures were becoming too much and drugs were becoming an option, I d take time out. Because I know you can burn out.
Do you ever feel you may burn out?
Yes. Going from nothing to being-in-demand every second of every day has scared me a lot. And I have days when I am really exhausted and just don t want to get out of bed. But if it got to a stage where I was having real problems with the schedule, I d tell my record company. If I couldn t go to them I d go to Louis and I feel he d sort it out. And I m glad he s had a few other acts before me because, now, he knows the limits of what any of us can do. At least most of the time!
You said earlier that some of the boys in school fancied you because you are black. Have you encountered similar tendencies in the music business? From, say, would-be managers excluding Louis, of course.
No chance of that happening! But, yeah, you get guys coming on to you. A lot. Yet I know instantly, when someone starts chatting me up, if they re only doing it because I am Samantha Mumba. They don t know the real me and don t really care. I m well-wise to them all.
Have you ever had music business people twice your age trying to get into your bed?
No way. Louis wouldn t put me with anybody he thought, for a second, would start coming on with that kind of rubbish. And my mother would worry about that kind of thing. Naturally enough. I was only 15 when I started recording this album and going off to Sweden, or wherever, and she didn t know what kind of people I was mixing with. So she came on the first trips, met them all, saw they were okay and wouldn t abuse me, and now feels okay about it. Then again, I ve always been very independent and would be able to stare down anyone who was trying to compromise me, in a sexual sense.
Not a lot of people know that Robbie Wootten was your first manager.
I never, ever, signed anything with Robbie. And Louis did nab me away from him. How Robbie got involved was that after I won the first programme of Let Me Entertain You, Gerry Ryan s talent show, Robbie came on board, because he was friends with Anita Notaro, who produced the show. He said I m looking for talent , she showed him the tapes he saw me and said I ve got to meet this girl, love her, blah, blah, blah. Myself and my mam met him, and though I found him very intimidating and was wary of him, from the beginning, my mom trusted him because he said he owned the Factory. So Mom thought obviously he s a lot of money so he s doing this because he loves music. He s not doing it because he wants to make loads of money out of Samantha.
How did he go about getting your career off the ground?
He started putting me in photo shoots that cost thousands of pounds. He was buying me loads of things, turning up at my door every day and my mom finally freaked, saying I m really not comfortable with the amount of money you re spending on Samantha. He said for something I love, this is tuppence to me. And he put me into vocal lessons, making me sound like an opera singer. It just wasn t me. Then before the final of Gerry s talent show, he said if you win the final, I ll buy a #400 mobile phone. It was all that rubbish. Like giving sweets to a child. That s why I only watched that final once on video. Because I gave a crap performance.
What happened on the night?
There was too much pressure on me. Like, I came into the dressing room two other girls there are just using the make-up that s there and I have a make-up artist, a hairdresser, an entourage. And he s there, every second, so I felt completely intimidated. But I didn t win the final, anyway. Then, later, I met Louis and my mam rang Robbie and said we re talking to Louis Walsh and Robbie said Lucifer. He s got such a bad name. The things we call him. All the rock world hates him. Deep down he thought I d still go with him but when I said I wasn t, he went ballistic. Screamed down the phone at my mam. Then, a few weeks later, I got a bill charging me over #11,000. He had every receipt down to a #2.50 taxi receipt one of the make-up artists had used. But I never paid a penny of that, never will. He hasn t a leg to stand on.
Do you feel sexually threatened in the music business?
No. I am, as I say, very strong and won t take rubbish from men.
Do you come on to men? As in Body II Body where you sing I m gonna pick him up/And I ain't gonna put him down till it feels all right ! Own up Samantha!
Fair enough! I am a strong person and if I like somebody I ll let them know!
Some-body?
Yeah!
So you re sexually assertive?
When I m into somebody, yeah.
Are you currently into some-body?
There s a lot of good looking people out there.
But are you currently connected to one of them?
No. But at the moment it doesn t bother me because I am so busy. But if I do marry anyone it will be an Irishman! And, in a few years, I am going to have children and get married.
Does it matter if that man is white, black, pink, orange?
Not as long as he s Irish. Because I wouldn t live anywhere but Ireland, permanently. And I think the Irish have a sense of humour that other people just don t get. I d need that in my life.
Have you been in love?
Definitely.
Has your heart been broken?
Not yet.
Have you broken hearts?
A few. One for sure. Though that was more the way things worked out. This was at the very beginning, before all the madness started happening in my career. It wasn t a question of it s the boyfriend or the career and I m going for the career. Though, in some ways, even now, it would be nice to have someone you could have a close relationship with in the middle of all this madness. Like a home base. But at the moment I don t miss that because I know things will work out eventually. With someone. I ve got my eye on a few people. We ll see which works out for the best!
So you re juggling guys up and down trying to decide?
(laughs) Exactly.
If it was Puff Daddy would you say yes.
I m over Puff Daddy now. He was a musical hero and a sex symbol to me and I loved his style. But he can have Jennifer and she can have him! But then I ve realised I definitely would never go out with a pop star. Being away from home so much it s hard enough to have a normal relationship, but when somebody else has as high a profile job as you, it d be a nightmare. But then a lot of the guys I ve met in the music business have come up to my knee, in height. For some weird reason they re all tiny! So, in any room I can see everybody because I m standing above them all. Yet boys are very foolish and I want somebody that s grounded and I ve yet to meet that in the pop industry.
So you didn t meet it in Cian, from Westlife, who I hear you went for, then drew back.
I wasn t expecting this question! Oh my God what have you heard? I didn t go for Cian! I m very good friends with all of Westlife but I d never go out with any of them. Myself and Cian have been good friends though it s Brian I know best because I grew up with him.
Either way, let s face it Samantha, you are being sold as a sex symbol, too. As in Sunday World articles revealing Songbird Samantha says she didn t get an op on her Britneys !
Her Mumbas are All Her Own was the quote, I think! And that must be one of the most dodgy headlines I ve ever seen. But this focus on things like my boobs though it has nothing to do with my music I understand because, obviously, in pop, people are going to look at your body. And at how you dress, carry yourself, behave. Everything is analysed. Anally! But that headline, and story, was a bit pathetic. If people want to see me as sexy fair enough. But I m not going to try to be sexy.
Would you do a Britney in terms of that controversial Rolling Stone photo shoot, where she was on the cover dressed in just a bra and shorts and pictured inside, in a school uniform, standing amid children s toys and so on?
I didn t see anything wrong with the cover photograph, though it was a bit saucy. But isn t Rolling Stone mostly a men s mag, so they re not going to do a picture of her looking sweet as pie, or they won t sell magazines. But the school uniform photo where she was, okay, seventeen, but looked like she was about twelve, was a bit too near paedophilia. Doing a sexy cover is fine, but portraying herself as a little girl, isn t. That went too far. But I d never do a bikini thing, or nude thing. If you ve to do that to sell records, do glamour modelling, don t bother with music.
Does Louis Walsh have any say in terms of your sex life. As in telling you, you re not allowed to get married and must tell the media you re a virgin, whether you are, or not?
I haven t signed the contract Westlife signed, saying they wouldn t get married for five years. I wouldn t. And he hasn t done the whole say-you re-a-virgin thing with me. If he did I wouldn t accept that, either.
Had you ever any intention of keeping your virginity till you were married?
No. Wouldn t it be God-awful if you got married to somebody and he was crap in bed! And then you re stuck with him for the rest of your life! What kind of gamble is that!
So you gotta do a test run?
Yeah! And like me saying I won t tell fans I m an angel or don t drink, I know fans want me to be real, sexually. I am. Whereas that whole Jessica Simpson thing of I m waiting until marriage even I would read and go, yeah, right ! I wouldn t believe it.
Do you have many female friends of seventeen who are waiting for marriage before losing their virginity?
I don t know anyone who is. Not one! And I won t let Louis, or anyone, dictate terms in relation to sex. My personal life is my own business. That s why, if I want to tell you I go out on a bender with my friends, when I m back in Dublin, that, too, is nobody s business but my own.
You wouldn t, presumably, go for a drink with Twink right now she is saying she discovered you, though you publicly described her as Barbie s granny !
She did say she discovered me, but I d been dancing for fourteen years with Billie Barry s School so that s a load of crap! She couldn t discover a fart in a paper bag!
But did she fire you from her panto, when you were fifteen or as she says was it management?
She fired me the first night. I was summoned to her dressing room at the end of the show and some of the words she used to describe me were words I never heard before. It was disgusting. We d done three weeks rehearsal, I went on stage left and the girl who was supposed to give me my microphone went off stage right and didn t get across to me quick enough to give me the mic. So I couldn t go on without a mic. But I only missed one line and she just exploded. She has a bit of a problem.
In terms of attitude?
If it all ended tomorrow, and I was on the dole and she offered me ten grand to be in her panto I would never, never, never, work with that woman again.
Was that one of the more souring experiences you had in showbusiness?
The worst. She said, in an interview, that she gave me experiences no money could buy. The only experience I got and advice was never to work with that woman again. She didn t discover me. She did nothing. And, if anything, Billie Barry warned me to be careful when I got the panto because they d fallen out years before.
Was that a moment you felt to hell with this, I m getting out of show business ?
God no! I wouldn t let somebody like Twink turn me around.
When did you first decide to be a singer? Had you some role model, to begin with?
There s never been a role model though I could listen to Whitney Houston s voice forever. But I have, as I say, been at Billie Barry s stage school since I was three! And, no, it s not a case of my mother wanting to be a star so she pushed me into it. It was more that Billie Barry s school was just around the corner from where I grew up and my parents thought something like tap dancing would be nice for me to do. It d kinda tire me out so I d go to bed early, to give my mom and dad a break! That s how it all started. But, there never was a moment I looked at a singer and said to myself, this is what I m going to do for the rest of my life. Because let s face it you never think you re going to meet Louis Walsh and he s going to manage you and things are going to work out so great. It really was, so much, a question of luck in terms of me meeting Louis that night I did.
But did you really blag your way into Lillie s Bordello and thus be discovered by Louis as your press release says?
No. That was made up by my press officer for the press. Though it s partly true. I was in talks with Olan McGowan (former a & r for Sony Records J.J.) who is a great friend of my family, and he introduced me to Dave Matthews, head of Sony in the States. So I met him, and Matt and Biff, who wrote all the Spice Girls stuff, were with him. Then they were in Dublin later and invited me and my mam for dinner. We all had a few drinks so we flounced into Lillie s and Louis was very impressed at who I was with. And they said I was wonderful so he gave my mom his number, saying he d ring. She said, yeah, right but a few weeks later he did ring. That s how it happened.
And now you have this really heavyweight team behind you.
It is a magical team. People like Colin Barlow, Lucian Grange, Angela Castell, David Joseph, are wonderful. And I love Universal Ireland. Martin Howard is like my brother! And Sharon, Jenny, they re a dedicated team. I could ring any of them up with a problem. At any time. And would.
When the decision was made not to go with, say, Sony/BMG or even Motown, was that your decision?
Yes. I was offered a deal by BMG but Polydor offered to make me their priority act so it made more sense. The decision was left to myself and Louis. And mam. And Jimmy Iovine is my head guy in America. And he s an extremely powerful man in terms of the music business. When he says he wants something done, it s done.
Louis, I hear, first asked you to meet Jimmy when he was staying in Dublin and you were at that very moment at your grandad s funeral.
That s right. And I could have killed Louis that night! I was at the get-together after the funeral and Louis rings me up, says come into the Morrison Hotel. I cursed him all the way in, saying how dare you ring me on the day of my grandfather s funeral? I don t care who s in the Morrison Hotel I m supposed to meet. But this is where Louis proves he s a good manger. He knew I had to meet Jimmy and that meeting led to my deal with Interscope. And I am the priority act not just in America but in all countries, on a decision by him, coming out of America. It s unbelievable. If you stop to think about it. Jimmy Iovine is such a powerful man and he s backing me. To the hilt.
Did he put together the list of producers and co-writers you worked with on your debut album?
Colin Barlow did. Getting me great producers like Rodney Jerkins, Jam and Lewis, Shakespeare. Though, when I went to America, I recorded a new track and Teddy Riley re-mixed Gotta Tell You as well. But there you go again! Teddy Riley is Michael Jackson s producer. And when I worked with him, in LA, he d been working with Michael Jackson the day before and took a break out of working with Michael Jackson, to do the song with me. Which is really amazing for me, given that I loved Michael Jackson s early albums. And I can t wait to hear the new album.
You said you are really happy with your album Gotta Tell You. Is part of that pride rooted in the fact that you co-wrote many of the songs, with the producers?
I am very proud of that because I d never written anything before. I d been given a publishing deal and it said I had to have at least eight co-writes on my album. But the producers I wrote with were great. They let me have the last word.
Are you saying you got a publishing deal before they even knew you could write?
Yeah. And then they team me up with co-writers and producers.
So are you getting a good deal, an appropriate percentage?
Positively. If, say, it s three people it s split three ways. I fought over that. First of all I got a sheet posted to me saying what my percentage was. Then I made a phone call telling them what my percentage was and we met in the middle.
Was Louis involved in that negotiation or did you just ring them yourself?
I didn t ring Louis before I made the call but I told him afterwards. Maybe they talked with him. I don t know.
So you really are acting as a business-woman in all this.
I am as I say a business woman. I won t allow myself to be ripped off.
But how much control did you have over the album Gotta Tell You?
If there was a song I didn t want on the album, it didn t go on. We recorded about twenty five songs, so that had to be brought down to twelve. Colin is not the kind of A& R man who dictates things. He ll ring me and we ll talk. Even though, fair enough, I am only seventeen and I know this is all a learning process for me. I m not going to march into Polydor and say this is what s happening, I want my way. We compromise a lot. I m not going to start acting the prima donna at seventeen. People won t put their heart and soul into your career if they think you re a little cow. And too many people have put their heart and soul into my career for me to start behaving like a cow. I know that if I was working on a record label and the act I was working with was a total cow, I wouldn t stay working that extra hour after work, or whatever.
When you go home tonight, after doing another day s grind as a neophyte pop star, whose albums would you turn on to inspire you?
Pink. Every Whitney Houston album. Madonna. Cisco. Michael Jackson s old stuff. Janet Jackson. Aretha Franklin. Diana Ross. I ve got a huge CD collection. And I ve always loved music, period. And the music business. I remember, at the age of four, I did the TV show, Secrets, with Gerry Ryan, and I was standing there, absolutely loving the audience, the lights, the camera, everything to do with this whole business. And 13 years later, now that I ve started to establish myself, I still love every minute of it. I couldn t be doing anything I d love more.
You said last year you wanted to break America, now you have.
But I didn t think it would be Gotta Tell You that would break America! I was looking at breaking America, three, four years down the line. So this has scared the shit out of me, to tell you the truth. It crept up on me out of nowhere. And left me totally fazed.
Either way, you apparently don t like it when people say here s another British success story.
I hate it. In fact, when people in interviews say it s great, we haven t had a British act break America like this the first thing I say is I m not British, I m Irish. And it has been here, in Britain that, all of a sudden they ve been claiming me as their own. I don t think so. So I m definitely not going to start saying I m British. Even to foreign journalists who seem to think Britain includes Ireland. That does my head in! I tell them I m Irish. End-of-story!

Samantha Mumba s Gotta Tell You album is out on October 27th