LOUIS, LOUIS!

Forget the famine, when it comes to the subject of Boyzone sometimes it seems that Ireland is, as a shrink might say, in a state of denial. Indeed, to a laughably ludicrous degree. Particularly rock snobs who can become apoplectic when asked to repeat ten times, Boyzone are one of the most successful bands ever to be spawned by this country. But, let s face it, they are.
Just check those statistics: twentysomething appearances on Top Of The Pops. Two number one singles. Eight top ten entries, the latest of which, Isn t It A Wonder , has been held from the top slot only by the phenomenal popularity of the Spice Girls. Apart from that there have been two number one albums, endless sell-out tours, millions made on merchandise that ranges from T-shirts through baseball caps to jackets, watches, magazines, posters, videos and books. And not only in Ireland and Britain. (Or Turkey!)
And if we accept that sales-figures are the definitive gauge of success in the pop world then it follows that Louis Walsh, the man behind Boyzone, is the most successful band manager Ireland has produced since Paul McGuinness though this fact, too, seems to initiate bouts of apoplexy among certain members of the rock fraternity who dismiss Walsh s achievements as a total fluke.
So, weeks away from what just may turn out to be his greatest coup placing Boyzone and Ronan on the Eurovision let s sit Louis Walsh down and try to find out who he is, where he s coming from, and where he s going. Arriving at our meeting place in Dublin s relatively new Herbert Park Hotel, near where he lives, he is noticeably nervous, revealing that he s really not too sure about doing this interview at all. It s partly because he believes that Hot Press hasn t been fair to acts such as Boyzone and partly because he doesn t want Hot Press prying into his private life.
Before we do start he takes out a stack of snaps he took at Elton John s recent 50th birthday party mostly of Ronan and various megastars like Michael Stipe and Billy Joel and shows them off with great enthusiasm. His passion for pop, and all the attendant paraphernalia, is quite infectious.

Joe Jackson: No questions about your private life, then. But how about just one? Are you having an affair with any of Boyzone, their co-manager John Reynolds, Linda Martin, Johnny Logan, the Carter Twins or any of the acts you ve managed or worked with?
Louis Walsh: (laughs) No, and I wouldn t want to have, either!
So why aren t you married?
I don t want to get married. I don t want a settled life. I d hate to be married and boring, with a nine-to-five job, a Ford Escort, and a house in Templeogue. I never wanted that, not for a moment. I love what I do, and I do it, without doing harm to anybody.
Really? Wouldn t you ever like to throttle your critics, particularly in the rock community those who think you are a talentless bastard, who just happened to be in the right place at the right time with Boyzone?
That s fading away. Mostly you hear that kind of shit coming from people who have failed with their own bands. I ve worked with loads of bands in this town, like In Tua Nua, Cactus World News, The Word. I ve seen all those bands get record deals and overnight they become stars in their own minds. And I used to book them out for gigs, say, in Cork, and they wanted this, that, a rider asking for certain kinds of food, accommodation and even someone to carry their gear down! And they hadn t even sold one record! And they became stars not only in their own minds but in the media in certain magazines that shall remain nameless.
Hot Press?
Yeah. If they were on the cover of Hot Press they thought they were stars. And if they did the Dave Fanning show. And these are the very people who don t like what I ve done with Boyzone because they think, that s what we always wanted to do, be on Top Of The Pops twenty times, and we never got that once. And we play our instruments, write our own songs. They re the people who resent it.
What about other managers?
There s only one manager in this country, Paul McGuinness. And he s a guy I really respect. Not just because he s got the biggest band but because he s got his feet on the ground, is an ordinary guy, to me. I suppose there s also Nicky and Roma Ryan, who manage Enya, but I don t really know them. But those who knock me are only jealous. Ireland is full of begrudgers. Geldof always said that and he s right. And you should fucking know it!
As for the slagging we get in Hot Press, Boyzone fans don t read Hot Press. And these guys that write for Hot Press have to be hip . They can t be seen to like a teen band, because teen bands are for young girls. And most rock critics are not young girls. At least, not as far as I know. Though what those guys in Hot Press do when they go home is none of my business!
But does the criticism get to the guys in Boyzone?
They wouldn t be reading Hot Press. To them it s not a credible magazine, as far as their market is concerned. Besides, how often have Something Happens been on the cover of Hot Press? And who are they? Nothing Happens! Whereas Boyzone have never been on the cover of Hot Press. The Corrs have. What s the difference between The Corrs and Boyzone? There are three gorgeous women in The Corrs and probably everybody in Hot Press fancies them. But what s the difference between the music of the Corrs and the music of Boyzone? We sell more! So, in that sense, it is stupid.
But then Hot Press has always been dedicated to keeping Ireland safe for rock n roll. That s what Niall Stokes wants. But then nearly everyone in Hot Press is either a failed musician, failed manager, all aspiring to be part of the music industry. And the nearest they re going to get is by writing about it in Hot Press. Look at Jackie Hayden, producer, Mystery Records! Niall Stokes was in Eyeless, The Brothers. George Byrne was in a band. They ve all wanted to be rock stars or rock managers but they re afraid to take the plunge. Hot Press is like The Pink Elephant used to be, filled with people who want to be rock stars, wear leather jackets and have no money!
Real rock stars, on the other hand, recognise that Boyzone are the first pop band to come out of Ireland and want to share in that. Van Morrison offered me a song for them and he s like God, to me, in terms of Irish music, the greatest song stylist we ever produced. I asked Bono to write a song for them and he wrote back a fax saying I love Boyzone and he said he will do a song.
Leaving aside this nasty attack on my beloved Hot Press, surely the fact remain that some members of Boyzone do want critical credibility from such quarters. If not, what was Keith doing on the Fanning Show moaning about how he wants Boyzone to be accepted as real musicians?
Every band in the world wants credibility, but if they continue to sell records, I don t care. We don t make records for critics or disc jockeys, we make records for punters because they re the people who buy records. I know bands who make great records, for the critics. And they ve all been dropped now. It s all about selling records and, at the moment we re selling records all over the world. Apart from in America, which is something we are going to try and rectify with the next album, which I think will surprise a lot of people.
Come on, Louis. Apart from selling records, someone like Ronan, who does love and live music, craves critical credibility as well as cash.
He ll get it. Ronan has a career way beyond Boyzone.
When you say you work with Ronan, or Boyzone what does that actually mean? Isn t there the perception that you re a kind of token manager for Ireland, that people in Polydor, London, or wherever, really pull the strings?
Absolutely not. Boyzone is a co-operative, that includes myself, Paul Keogh in Polygram, John Reynolds, and, of course, the lads themselves. They choose their clothes,and if they don t want the next single to come out it doesn t come out. They do everything, though Ronan has somehow become the spokesperson. As I say, he s a naturally talented fucker.
Are you a naturally talented fucker , a natural manager?
I don t think I m ruthless enough. I m not in it for the quick buck, take the money and run.
But you are in it to get rich, Louis. John Reynolds and you told me, back in 1995, that you both want to become millionaires out of this. As do the lads.
But that s not what I think about when I get up every morning. I want to see where they are in the charts in various parts of the world, think about what we ll do for the next single, album, who s going to produce the next video, who s going to do a duet with them, where we ll go to tour. That s what really gives me the buzz now.
Now that you are a millionaire?
I m not.
You must be, after the last two, three years.
It s not in my bank account.
But the members of Boyzone are millionaires?
They re on the way. It takes a year for money to come in from a record. We didn t make a lot of money for the first year. But we are on the way to being millionaires. Yet money really is the last of my concerns, because I ve never had money. All those rock bands I worked with never paid me.
Okay, let s backtrack. Did you originally get into booking and managing bands because you were a failure at everything else?
(Laughs) I always loved pop music so maybe it was inevitable I d end up working in the business. I grew up in Kiltimagh, in County Mayo and used to listen to records when everyone else was playing football.
So you were a sissy from the outset?
Call me what you want! I probably was. But I never played football, had no interest in it. I loved my records. The first one I ever bought was Let s Get Together by Hayley Mills, on that blue Decca label. Then Here Comes The Night by Them, Herman s Hermits. And my mother used to have Jim Reeves records. And my father had things like The King and I, and My Fair Lady soundtracks. That s where it all began, for me.
And music really did become my escape, my world. I d get Spotlight, Fab 208, was hooked on pop from the beginning, still am. I even loved Irish pop! Myself and me sister used to dance around to The Hucklebuck by Brendan Bowyer, play that all the time. I was never into rock, bought that The Rock Machine Turns You On compilation and hated it, with people like The Byrds and Tim Buckley on it. Though I m really glad Tim Buckley went on to become the tour manager with U2!
When you say escape what do you mean? From what? Were you a loner?
Semi-loner. You couldn t be a loner in a house with nine kids! And our house was always full of people. So I was deliriously happy. That s why I hated going to boarding school. I loved being at home.
So were you a boringly happy child? Did you not get beaten by Christian brothers, abused by priests, kissed by nuns?
Not yet! I went to national school, no Christian Brothers. And nothing like that happened in boarding school. No one even dropped the hand on me! At one point, at home, there may have been the idea that I d become a priest. Slim chance! No chance! I m not religious at all. If I ever was, boarding school knocked that out of me, having to get up and go to Mass every morning. Come on, how could you enjoy that? So I never had a religious sense. I m a bad Catholic, but a good Christian, which is what I meant, earlier, when I said I m not ruthless enough for this business. I m not vicious enough. Never was.
But, in terms of boarding school, though I wasn t expelled, I didn t get the Inter Cert and they advised that I not be sent back. So I went to a day school, got the Leaving, then got a job working with the Royal Blues Showband, which was my break into the music business. Their agent, Tommy Hayden, knew I was crazy about music and that I d been doing the fan club for the Royal Blues and their lead singer, Doc Carroll, so he gave me a job in their office in Dublin. Answer the phone, go to the Post Office, get their suits cleaned, send off the posters, all that. And we had big bands, like the Nevada, Red Hurley, The Royal Showband.
As a pop fan, did you then become disillusioned by learning about the scams, the deals done, the managers who hired heavies to collect cash, the dance hall owners who ripped people off?
Not at first, because I was going to places like the TV Club and getting in free and all that, seeing The Freshmen, Chips, The Plattermen, who I thought were the best bands in the whole wide world. But then Tommy Hayden let me book out bands and got me this band called Little People and a rock band called Time Machine. And that s when I did come in contact with the darker side of it all. It was tough. I d get like #10 a night for Time Machine to play support to the showbands. It was called relief work, though you couldn t call it that now, could you?
But let me tell you about Ireland, then. Contracts, forget them. I had endless nights, 3am phone calls from bands, saying he s offering us #200 though the contact said #600. If the punters didn t come in the door you never got paid. And then there was the scam of them playing down the number of punters who did turn up. They d always tell you lies. And there were always priests running carnivals. They were real dodgy, to get pay from. There was a lot of money around and it was all unaccountable. Taken at the door, no tickets, nothing. If you were a big band you could put your own guys on the door, but the ballroom owners never liked that. You were always ripped off. There was no dressing rooms, no facilities, it was shite.
Didn t you send in the heavies?
I never did, but maybe I should have. Others did, especially in the later years. But I didn t because I d have three bands and needed to work with that ballroom owner the next week ,or whatever. You didn t have the power when you weren t big-time. You had to play ball with them. And they know that. So it was hell.
At the very end, just before Boyzone, I used to bring in acts from England, like Sinitta and Sonia, with backing tracks. And this was a whole new thing in Ireland. I had to take a promoter to court. He said he wasn t going to pay me because Sinitta was miming. She wasn t miming. And I won.
What s the worst story you ever heard of a musician losing fleeced?
A lot of the musicians were on wages paid by certain Dublin agencies. Those musicians could be on maybe #60, #80 a week even though they d be taking up to #1,000 a night. But the management kept all the money.
When you say that none of the promoters was honourable in this, do you include Albert Reynolds and the Reynolds clan in general?
I never dealt with them. They were gone by the time I started, apart from Jim Reynolds, who was one of the few honourable people. That s how I got to know John Reynolds. John used to book bands with me. He rang me up for In Tua Nua once and I knew it was because he fancied Leslie Dowdall! And I said Another Reynolds? But the Reynolds were one of the few places that would book a band and pay.
So how did all this effect the musicians? Did they end up doing too many drugs, drinking too much, finding compensation in the endless fucking of groupies?
There were no drugs, just alcohol and lots of women after the gig. But then sex was all there, on tap, in the back of the wagon after the show. So that was compensation, better than being back in Dublin on the dole. Better to be in Galway, having it off with someone.
Fucking women and fucking them around, perhaps. So did any of the guys in the bands you booked ever get anyone pregnant, have to hush that up?
No, that didn t happen until Boyzone and by then there was no need to hush anything up. So no, back then I didn t mind them getting laid. My biggest problem was, as I say, getting paid!
So the most you heard of was bands doing their gigs, getting half paid, a ride and going home?
Yeah. And them going offside probably did mess up a lot of marriages they were caught. And they did drink too much. And the worst thing was, if the band didn t get paid they blamed me. And if they don t get paid, you don t get your 10% as the booking agent.
Did any band managers try to rip you off?
They didn t do me any favours. Like, when they did the record deals they, too, thought they were stars. But they wouldn t help, by not paying me or by not paying me all my money on time, making me wait for it, making me slog. And so many bands owe me money. Owe me thousands and thousands of time. And that all really left me in the shits, with telephone bills, office bills to pay. And I did tours for those bands, got them good money, two grand a night, which is #200 I was supposed to get for each gig of, say, ten. But it s the managers I blame, not the bands, because they were sponsored by big record companies, responsible for spending hundreds of thousands of pounds. So the onus lies with the managers. They all used me. I was absolutely used and abused by so many bands.
So, as a booking agent, were you the only alternative to MCD?
And they had all the clout. They offered acts things I could never offer, support, whatever. But I remember that Aslan had a row with MCD and left to come to me. It was great!
What about RTE? Have they always been supportive?
Absolutely. 2FM in particular. And I ve always played ball with people in there.
What does that mean? You give them back-handers?
No. I ve probably been more honest with them than most. I remember phoning up Larry Gogan at home and his wife Florrie, said, What do you want him for? I told her I wanted him to play Linda Martin s single, Where The Boys Are . She said, Oh, that s shite, but he ll play it. And he did. He ll play Linda beside Susan McCann, beside U2. He s great like that. And Linda Martin was always on TV, everything except Match Of The Day, and we were in the running for that! Johnny Logan? More Specials than you can count. Boyzone? Backed them from the beginning, helped break them with things like Beat On The Street.
So how are you that lucky with RTE? Whose arses do you, eh, lick? Didn t you ever give a bribe to anyone in RTE?
Absolutely not. I work hard. It s a full-time job getting people air-time, endless phone calls. Besides, if I gave them a bribe they know I d tell everyone!
But I have had problems getting certain artists played, of course. The only way to break a record in Ireland is blanket-programming. And I have a major problem with two major radio stations in Ireland. I cannot get records played on FM104 or 98FM. They don t bloody well play Irish records. They do not break Irish artists. They take the money from the advertisers but still play The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and all the safe, old hits. They will not break new acts.
Are you just talking here about Boyzone?
No. I m talking about everybody. Picture House, any new band coming up. They only play Boyzone now because they ve made it. They do not do anything for the Irish music industry at all. Something should be done about it. I ve had major problems getting the Carter Twins played on both those stations. I rang and rang and rang and I can t even get the people in charge. When I do get the people in charge they fob me off. But you need radio to break an artist. That s how they do it in the States. You can buy radio in the States. And Niall Stokes, as head of the IRTC, should sort all this out. I m slagging Hot Press but I like him and think he really does believe in what he does. So, he gives out licences and he s in a position to see that Irish records get played. And he should. All Irish stations should be playing whoever, Daniel O Donnell, the Cranberries, Therapy?, I don t care. As long as they play a fair quota of Irish music. We need that to keep the Irish industry going.
I also think TnaG is a waste of time and money. It s absolute rubbish.They should put the Irish programmes on Network Two for a few hours a night and turn the new station into a kind of light entertainment station, even an MTV. We have no pop show, as such on RTE, only 2TV and that s only back-to-back videos.
People might say that Boyzone have done fuck-all for indigenous Irish culture, that they re the kind of quasi English-American pop band killing Irish culture.
Who d say that? The two people who watch TnaG? Well, to both of them, all I can say is sorry. But I still believe that the station is a terrible waste of space. And money. And everybody else thinks this, though no-one is saying it.
So, going back to acts like Johnny Logan, didn t you or the record companies you worked with, ever try to buy into radio here?
When the sponsored programmes were in RTE there were deals done. I would have been doing that, if I was around then. And there was a columnist, then, in a certain paper, who often took money, because I was often sent to give him the little envelope. In the late 70s. Another columnist did it too. They d get about a #15, #20 a go, which was a lot of money, especially if you were getting it from ten bands, in one week. And I used to actually deliver the article typed up, with the photograph, and the info on the gig. It was like a free ad.
Are you trying to tell me that that doesn t still go on in radio stations and so on? One hears many tales of such people being paid off with cocaine.
I wish it did work that way. It d make it easier to get records played. But if it did, I ve never heard of it, though obviously there is cocaine used in this business.
What is your response to that whole school of Irish rock managers who, apparently, lined their pockets, if not noses, while, at the same time, ripping off their bands, big-time?
They re still around. We all know who they are. But most of them don t have any money. And don t deserve to have. Many of them are nothing now, no friends, because everyone has seen through them. So it all does come back to get you, I believe.
But my real problem as a manager, around the time when U2 broke and people were flying in from all over the world, trying to sign the next U2 was that I preferred Eurovision to rock bands! Back then I was more interested in winning the Eurovision than signing the next U2. So I teamed up with Linda Martin and Johnny Logan, all that.
And I was blissed by it all, at first, because when I was going to school, I loved the Eurovision. It was one of the biggest nights of the year. And I remember Sandie Shaw in it, thought she was the best, Puppet On A String . Didn t like Cliff, reckoned he lacked soul, though Congratulations was fab. But back in the 80s we really did see the Eurovision as a big show, a way to get a hit maybe worldwide and, at the worst, get famous in Ireland for a year. You d get the cover of the RTE Guide, six shows on RTE, lots of radio. So you would be a national hero for a while, even if you were soon forgotten.
Was that your experience with Johnny Logan?
Yeah. When we came back from winning in Den Haag there was thousands of people at the airport, it was like Beatlemania. I d met Johnny when he was being managed by Jim Hand, worked with him for two years, didn t make a bean. Then Shay gave him What s Another Year , which I thought was a dreadful song, until Bill Whelan did the arrangement. And it swept the national and Eurovision, but his follow-up records didn t happen and then, of course, I got involved in that court case with Jim Hand and Tommy Hayden.
Johnny says all this is what ruined his chances of breaking through after the Eurovision.
Johnny blames everybody. What happened the second time, in 87, when he won? He didn t have any problems then. I can t understand why he didn t make it as a superstar. He was a great singer, great looker, great mover. He could have been a Julio Iglesias. But Johnny was doing Bruce Springsteen songs, wanted to be credible . How can you be credible if you win the Eurovision twice? You can t be. So go for it, take the money, have a good time. And Johnny has been with three different record companies, a lot of money. But it s over for him now, in terms of ever making it big. I m sure he s very comfortable but he really should have made it big.
Listening to Brian Kennedy, I hear traces of Johnny Logan, same thing. And the Johnny Logan experience knocked a lot of my confidence out of me. But someone like Linda Martin is a great friend, always was, always comes through for me. In fact, she s one of the few friends I have in this business.
So, at one stage, before you got into Boyzone, you lost faith in the Eurovision, failed with someone like Logan, couldn t get paid by rock bands. At this point were you basically fucked?
I couldn t see any way out. The Eurovision certainly lost its appeal because I realised you weren t guaranteed a hit out of it. I realised that when Johnny won the second time. You weren t guaranteed a career. And now it s just a big TV show. That s why, this year, I don t care who votes for who. Ronan is hosting it, Boyzone are in it.
And if you want to talk about losing faith in the Eurovision, one thing I now see is that it s all to do with politics, like the Ireland-England thing. Nobody votes for Germany because they all remember Hitler. Turkey versus Greece, all that kind of thing. And Ireland win an awful lot because our entry is in English, which is the language of pop music. And we re neutral, usually have an okay song.
So, as a kid, who adored Eurovision, it really is sad to see through it, this way. It doesn t mean anything for Ireland to win anymore. Who won last year? Eimear Quinn? Where is she now? The only thing it is, as I say, is a big TV show and this year it s going to be brilliant. Noel Currin, the producer, took a big chance by using Ronan. He had a lot of opposition from the powers-that-be.
Do you think Marc Roberts has a snowball s chance in hell of winning for Ireland this year?
No.
Okay, let s jump back a little, to before Boyzone. At that point did you ever get depressed at not seeing any way out of the quagmire?
Yes. Terribly, because I didn t have money to pay my bills.
But you seem always to be quite up and jolly. With all due respect, some would say you are a superficial shit.
I don t think I am. It just so happens I don t talk about my problems to anyone. And the reason I wasn t broken by it all is that I still love the music. But I definitely was looking for a way out, something new, some way to finally make money.
Did you drink at that point?
I m just a social drinker, basically.
Ever do drugs?
I did cocaine a few times, about ten years ago. It did absolutely nothing for me. Made me even more hyper than I am. And now I m actually anti-drugs because I ve seen them fuck up too many people. I was a bit more open then. That s why I don t go along with the Hot Press line of legalise them because they re safe, or cool . They re not. Look at Phil Lynott. So I am totally against drugs now. I ve never taken E or any of that.
Hash?
Tried it once, got sick! There s more to do in life, like walking, reading, enjoying it all that way.
But you don t fucking read, Louis!
I read all the magazines, from Billboard to Arena.
Yes, but do you have interests outside pop music?
Probably not. Nothing as great, though I love movies and occasionally read a book.
So are you the quintessential pop obsessive in other words, an emotional and intellectual retard?
I probably am! I live in record shops, watch MTV, flick to teletext to get the charts on Sunday. It is my life. If that means that, emotionally, I m retarded, well, at least I m happy. And these days what I love are the female singers, Dusty, Patsy Cline, Brenda Lee, Dinah Washington. All that emotion. But I ve no time for the Woman s Heart thing, Mary Black. And I hate Frances Black. She s never in tune. Diddly-eye music does nothing for me either. I am obsessed with pop.
So, you were desperately looking for something new, and decided that Ireland needed a boy band along the lines of East 17, Take That, put the ad in the paper, auditioned 150 guys and formed Boyzone? Is that it, really?
Basically, yeah, though I also signed up Sean O Farrell, thought he could be the next Daniel O Donnell, worked at that for two years, made nothing. Then he went to Ritz Records; haven t seen or heard from him since.
While we re on the subject, what do you think of Daniel O Donnell?
I don t like his music at all. Soulless. But I admire him because he is a household name and is absolutely sincere about what he does. He is not the best singer in the world, but he s Daniel O Donnell 24 hours a day. He signs all the autographs, does all the right things, knows his market and plays to that. His market is older women and he s the boy-next-door they always wanted to go out with. He s knows exactly what he s doing.
In a recent issue of your favourite magazine, Hot Press, one of the members of Chill said they wouldn t be going along with that deny-your-sex-life, deny boyfriends dictate you imposed on Boyzone, from the beginning. Which obviously backfired, to a degree, when two members of the band got their girlfriends pregnant.
I don t think all that is as important as it was even three years ago. People are wise now, they see through the tabloid stories. We all know that the Spice Girls are not the nice girls they are supposed to be. To a lot of the fans they are five nice girls trying to be rude, but that s not the case. And, to tell you the truth I don t see what the Spice Girls have, don t get it. I don t like them.
Is that just professional jealousy? Are the Spice Girls damaging Boyzone?
They re bigger than Boyzone.
And they made it in America, which Boyzone, as yet, have failed to do.
They made No.1 in America but that s because their record company, Virgin, has clout. And money. A fortune was spent on them. But I m not a fan. Yet the lads like them because they re real tomboys. But the Spice Girls don t, in the slightest, signal the death of Boyzone or the boy bands. I don t see it lasting. It s all image, a marketing ploy. But it s working. And it s great for pop.
You and John Reynolds have a 20% share of Boyzone?
Yes. That s the deal. And we paid to record that first single ourselves, Working My Way Back To You . John Reynolds came up with that money, so I put him in as a partner. Then we did the gigs, playing to 20, 30 people, still not getting paid, as in the old days. And Ronan used to collect the money a lot, if I wasn t there. But we still were having problems with promoters because this was an unknown thing, five Irish guys going out without instruments. They said, Where s the band? Are they miming, boy? So all that was a problem.
And when you went to Polygram, was the response similarly cautious?
Paul Keogh was cagey initially, yeah. But he works harder than most of the other record company people in Ireland, though we don t always agree on things.
In fact, it s claimed you constantly fight and that there are shouting matches, tension all the time.
Well, he wants control, I want control, and the band wants control, over certain things like songs and records.
So who, ultimately, decides what tracks goes on, say, the two Boyzone albums?
Ronan is the musical director of Boyzone. And Steve, to a degree. But then they write most of the material, whereas the others just occasionally contribute. And producer Ray Hedges is very important to us. He has a very good chemistry with the lads and writes very good songs with Steve and Ronan.
Does he write them with, or for, them? There are rumours that he writes the bulk of material and just slaps their names on as part of the deal.
No. And I don t care what people say. Ronan and Steve write tons of stuff. And Ray did come through from the beginning. I rang all the pop labels looking for a producer and they didn t even return my calls. I remind them of that now, whenever I can! Working My Way Back To You was done with producer Ian Levine, he got the #10,000. But he told me Ronan could not sing and he was absolutely wrong about that. He put Stephen and Mikey on lead vocals.
And we did the B-side here, Father And Son , for #600. And the record company said they didn t want that on the album because they didn t rate it at all. That s what I have realised. Record companies just don t fucking know. If they did then everything they do would be hits. Most of them are just fat cats sitting in an office throwing shit at a wall and hoping some will stick.
Why is John Reynolds the silent partner in this co-manager deal with Boyzone?
Because he s a club man. And I only took him in at the start because as I say, I needed the #10,000.
So he gets 10% of everything because of that original #10,000 investment? He did well!
Yeah, that s the deal we did at the start. And he was there right throughout the beginning, where things really were tough.
You were broke when you started Boyzone. How much did you put into the project?
#2,500 that I got from a guy in AIB who had a great laugh at the whole idea! That was to pay for the photo shoot. And two of the guys worked in a clothes shop, so we got the clothes free. That s how tight things were, in the beginning. But then we got on the Smash Hits tour in England, won the Best New Act Award, that was the break.
Even so, there probably still is the perception that you and John Reynolds are the two fat cats ripping off Boyzone while they exist on pennies. And that they may be broke at the end but you two will be millionaires.
That s not going to happen because they pay us! We don t pay them. That s how our contracts are structured. Their accountants pay our accountants. That s the kind of legal advice they got from the outset. But there is a lot of trust between me and the lads. Really. We ve no problems along these lines. And that is the truth. It s totally legit. Remarkably so. Same with the way we finally broke through in Britain.
When did you finally realise, My dark days are over, I m on a winner here ?
When Love Me For A Reason got into the British charts and they went onto Top Of The Pops. I knew they had a career, but never thought it would be this big. But the punters, the girls, loved them. And one of their big things is the fact that they are Irish. They really have charmed so many people abroad that it s unbelievable.
Is there any dark cloud hanging over it all?
We all know the whole thing has a shelf life of, at most, another three years. And they accept that. But apart from this they re really relishing it all.
What about the tabloid stories, those children, the relationships that they were supposed to remain quiet about? Did any of that backfire?
I broke those stories. Keith told me his girlfriend was pregnant, I said, Congratulations . Same with Mikey. And, if anything, it gave the papers another angle, in that they could write about the baby, the girlfriend. And then you had the rumour that Ronan was engaged. He s not engaged. He was seeing Vernie, from Eternal, but that s over. Yet I really don t want to know that much about their personal lives. As I say, what they do behind closed doors is their own business.
But don t they have contracts that lay down definite regulations in terms of their private lives, like no drunkenness and if you do drugs you re out? If any member was caught doing a line of coke wouldn t he be kicked out of Boyzone?
If they re caught. But they don t do that.
You don t know that for sure, do you?
Of course I don t. But they know they have to behave themselves and behave professional. And they know I m against drugs and against excessive drink. But I don t control that side of their lives. They do whatever they want. They re human beings.
So, if Keith wants to ditch the mother of his child, as one tabloid paper claimed, that s okay?
They re still together, Keith and Lisa. They re happy together. And, apart from Mikey, the other three are free to do what they want, once the door is closed.
But is it true that Disney lost interest in Boyzone after the two had children outside marriage? And that this killed the chances of a film project?
That was never a real runner, anyway. And we need to be in the papers all the time so we ll use anything for an angle.
So you know far more about their private lives than you can say publicly.
Paul McGuinness knows far more about U2 than he can say publicly. There is a public perception of Boyzone and that s the way I want to keep it. Clean-living boys-next-door. Though they are five different guys.
But would you throw someone out of Boyzone if they advocated the use of E?
The other guys would. Boyzone are against drugs.
Drink?
They probably drink a lot more than I think they do. They do what they want in that sense too. They really are handling it better than I thought they would; I was afraid we d have problems along these lines.
What about problems with singing? Can they all sing?
Some, better than others. And despite Dave Fanning saying Half of these guys can t sing , he loves Boyzone. But I absolutely exploited what he said, got us on the news, everywhere. And I got him great publicity. It hasn t happened since for him. It s not going to happen again for him. Dave is more known for slagging off Boyzone than for anything he s done in his life. He may not be the most professional broadcaster in Dublin, but I like him.
Dave Fanning seems to be getting bashed lately. Some people are trying to relegate him to the role of last year s model in comparison with John Kelly and Donal Dineen, on Radio Ireland.
I haven t heard Kelly, don t like Dineen. Hated No Disco. Super Furry Animals, Trash Can Sinatras, who the fuck are they? Bands I never heard of.
Are you reacting here against the fact that the ex-producer of No Disco, Colm O Callaghan, has slagged off Boyzone in The Sunday Tribune, or rather him saying that you seem to be responsible for opening the door for all of these relatively asinine boy and girl bands in Ireland?
Who is Colm O Callaghan? Did anyone ever hear of him? I buy the Tribune on Sunday but it s a bit grey. And O Callaghan, is he the guy from Cork? Well, who cares about Colm O Callaghan? He doesn t know anything about pop. He only knows about indie records that sell to about 12 people. But I think we did open the door to the OTTs and all that. I think Chill have a great chance.
Why didn t you become co-manager then, when asked to be?
Six girls, including Valerie Roe! Imagine those meetings? All that hairspray in one room. No thanks! But I hope they make it. And in terms of the pop scene in Ireland I think if Boyzone are U2 then OTT are going to be the equivalent of The Cranberries. Though I think there is room for another solo star, a Ronan, or Steve.
Are you pushing Ronan to be the member of Boyzone who will, inevitably, go solo?
No. People are thinking that because of the Eurovision and a few media stories. But I m not. I told you years ago that at least two of the guys had a future beyond Boyzone: Ronan and Steve. That still stands. But nobody has approached them in terms of a solo deal. Contrary to popular belief. And both of them are 50/50 in terms of the fan base, though Shane is very popular too. And Mikey and Keith have a totally different fan base.
Different, as in what? Gay?
Probably, yeah. But they love all that and play gay clubs. All boy bands have a strong gay following.
But didn t Steve upset the gay community when, after being asked if he ever kissed a guy, responded Uuugh!
That was just an innocent remark. He wouldn t upset anyone and it was only Hot Press that made a story out of that.
So, to wrap up, what do you see happening out of the Eurovision?
Well, Ronan and Steve have written a new song, with Ray Hedges and that may be the next single, depending on the response on the night. It s not on the album, because RTE wouldn t let us do a track from the album. They said they want something new. And I would like to line up something for beyond Boyzone, which is why I m working with the Carter Twins, who have signed to RCA in London. And they re on tour at the moment, with Peter Andre, which cost the record company #20,000 to buy them onto that tour. But it s worth it, they ve got 9,000 in their fan base already, so things will happen for them too. They re like a young Righteous Brothers.
But I do accept that what happened for me with Boyzone may never happen again. And I can live with that. Whatever I m doing I ll definitely be in the music business.
Yeah, but what are you going to be when you grow up, Louis?
(laughs) I don t know! A manager? n