Hot Press interviews STEPHANIE ROCHE in Italy

In 2014, Stephanie Roche burst onto the world stage when her stunning goal for the Irish women’s football club Peamount United went viral. She went on to become the first woman in the world to be nominated for the FIFA Puskás Award. Over one million people worldwide voted her into the runner-up position, while at the Ballon d’Or ceremony, she turned the heads of Ronaldo, Messi and countless more around the globe.

The intervening years have brought ups and downs, including a leg break while on international duty. Last year, she returned from injury to sign with Florentia San Gimignano in Italy’s Serie A. In the Florentia camp for their clash with AC Milan, I encountered a footballer in her prime, awaiting her chance to shine again. Stephanie Roche is ready to prove she has more to give. A whole lot more.

COFFEE SHOP, FLORENCE.
FRIDAY, 10:30

After his season at Juventus, Ian Rush reportedly said “I couldn’t settle in Italy, it was like living in a foreign country.” Are you enjoying it here?

In terms of football, it’s fine. Football is a universal language. When the club asked me to re-sign for this season, I told them I needed more Italian lessons. We’ve started them now, so I’m getting much better. It’s particularly important because the manager doesn’t speak English. The hardest thing is in the dressing room: the blending-in, being part of the team. I’m a quiet person. At Sunderland, I could fit in easily; I talked to everybody, but kept to myself at the same time. Here, I’m living with an English player, Lois, and Tamara from Germany, and we get on really well, so that makes it easier.

There’s a big match tomorrow against AC Milan. How has the season been so far?

I was our top scorer in pre-season. I scored nine goals in four games. I was playing really well and felt back to my old self. And I got back into the Irish squad, which was a big thing for me. I was enjoying football. I started the first game; we didn’t play well as a team. I’m not saying I didn’t have a good game, but I didn’t have a great game. The manager took me out of the team straight away. I’ve been coming on as a sub in some games since. It was annoying because I had found my rhythm.

Is football a man’s world?

It’s slowly changing. Most people probably change because they feel they have to, which I find a bit patronising. I see people talking about women’s sport and you can tell they’ve never watched a women’s game; they’re just talking about it because they feel they should. If you’re going to show support, it’s important that you actually watch a game. It’s important to criticise as well. If I have a bad game, I’d prefer to be told, because it means the person is taking a genuine interest. You don’t want to hear that you’re great, after every game. That really bugs me.

BBC Sport’s advert for the Women’s World Cup had the tagline “They’re Better Than You Think”, with the word ‘Think’ crossed out. Do a lot of guys assume they’re better than most professional women footballers?

To an extent! Men are built different to women; they’re stronger and faster. I’ve trained with senior men’s teams and it’s only speed and strength where I find I’m not as good. In terms of technical ability, I’m usually better or as good. Some people think the women’s game is slow. But it’s a different type of game. Women’s football is more technical, because we’re not as fast. To really appreciate our game, you need to watch it at the highest level.

Your boyfriend, Dean, plays in the League of Ireland. Who’s the better footballer, you or him?

Oh God, you can’t ask me that! We’re different types! He’s a really good footballer. As a man, he’d say he’s better! He’s faster and stronger, without a doubt. But tactically and technically, we’d be much the same. And in terms of ability, if we were to do a number of exercises like hit the crossbar or ping a ball from 40 yards, we’d be similar.

So, who would come out on top in those exercises?

Jesus, this could cause a break-up! I’m going to say me. He’d probably say him though. We’ll have to do a test, yeah?!

How do you manage the long-distance relationship?

The fact that we’re both footballers makes it easier because he understands why I’m here. And even better, he pushes me. Football is fickle; you’re easily forgotten and quickly replaced. When I was injured, Dean always encouraged me. We’ve been together 12 years, so it’s hard being apart. You don’t want to be living in a different country to the person you love. But he knows how much it means to me to be a top footballer.

When did you realise you were good at football?

Probably not until I was 12 or 13. I used to play on the street with the lads, and everybody knew me as a little tomboy. But I never knew much about women’s football until I played in school. I got trials for Ireland quite quickly; it was only then I thought, ‘Jesus, I must be alright!’

Is it frustrating that bigger money is only now hitting the women’s game?

Yeah, England are a good bit ahead of most countries. The FA have a lot of players on central contracts, getting good money. They’re able to be really professional, and it’s changing them as a team. It’s great to see. I’ve played football for a long time, and now it’s taking off. If that can continue, it’s good for everyone.

You shot onto the world stage with that goal. Have you ever wished you’d never scored it?

That’s a good question... Sometimes it can work against you. I like to think I’m a decent footballer in terms of technical ability. I think I can score special goals. But women’s football can be quite bitchy. In the past, in clubs, people have thought ‘who does she think she is?’ At Sunderland there were issues with a couple of girls who were just nasty. I let it affect me a little. I had a lot of opportunities after the Puskás Awards, but I only took on stuff that was relevant to me. I wouldn’t have done something just to make money. But there were things I didn’t do because I thought I’d have people in the squad bitching.

What was it like being thrown into the spotlight?

I strangely enjoyed it because everyone was so positive, particularly in Ireland. You’ve obviously got the begrudgers putting nasty things on Twitter, but in general people were good. I was doing interviews with media from all over the world; I found it weird that they wanted to talk to me. I’m a private person so having to put stuff on social media at the time was also weird. But it’s part of what you have to do nowadays. It’s not that I wish it hadn’t happened, but there were times where it did affect people’s opinion of me.

Tell me about the opportunities you turned down.

I was asked to go on pretty much every reality TV show in Ireland. But it would have conflicted with football. And I’d have been going against everything I knew to put football second.

Were there media approaches from the UK?

I was asked to go on Big Brother a few weeks after the Puskás nomination was announced. I had just finished in France and I was going to America. They got in touch with Wexford Youths, the club who I scored against. One of the girls messaged me, saying, ‘You’re not going to believe this, Big Brother has been onto us looking for you’. I immediately thought, ‘No!’ It wasn’t for me.

Maybe when you hang up your boots?!

Yeah, hopefully some of them ask me again when I retire!

Did the hype around the Puskás Award raise expectations too much?

A little bit, yeah. I’ve never said I’m the best footballer in the world, and I like to be criticised. I think when people who hadn’t watched women’s football saw the goal, they thought I have to be the best women’s footballer around. People were tweeting saying, ‘she’s unbelievable, she has to be up for the Ballon d’Or’. But I’d never get ahead of myself; I’m not that type. Sometimes people perceive you simply based on what they’ve read. But there are so many good female players who people don’t know about. I used the platform to promote women’s football and show that there are plenty of women who can score goals as good as Messi and Ronaldo.

What are your thoughts on equal pay?

The Premier League in England generates millions. Right now, the Women’s Super League doesn’t. But if the FA promoted the women’s game in the same way, it could make as much. The girl I live with was saying it’s crazy to think that Jesse Lingard is on such a ridiculous amount of money, and we’re on just under two grand a month. We’re doing the same thing every day, we’re working our arses off. There are parts of you that think ‘even if we got a quarter of what he gets, it’d be great.’ But at the same time, I don’t think we generate enough money yet. It’s getting to the stage where it could; 60,000 people went to Atletico Madrid and Barcelona, Wembley sold out for England–Germany, and Spurs–Arsenal got 38,000 two weeks ago. More interest is being generated but it’s not there yet, particularly in club football. At the international level, because you’re representing your county, the pay should be more equal, as it’s more equal in terms of what you’re doing.

Should there be equal pay, full-stop?

You’re going to get me in trouble, I was part of the strike thing with the FAI, I have to be careful! I’ll never play for Ireland again (laughs)! No, I do think the same principle applies; the men sell out the Aviva and we’re playing in Tallaght Stadium. Our attendance is growing and we’re heading in the right direction with the games being on RTÉ, but we’re still a bit far off getting equal pay.

How do you navigate the pathway towards equal pay ?

It has to start with equal opportunity. All the bits in between have to be the same, not just money. For instance, when the men’s international team go away, they have five masseuses, physios, everything they need. We get one physio and I think we’ve just now got a masseuse. As a team, we need things like that. Everything has to be equal. Only then can women’s football progress. The same goes for media and branding; when sponsorship comes through for the men’s team they should be told ‘if you’re sponsoring our men’s team, you’re sponsoring our women’s team as well’. And there should be an equal share for the men and women, if we’re talking about equality. The basics need to be equal first, then eventually it can get to the pay being equal.

Does it come down to the need for greater investment in the women’s game?

Yeah, it does. We’re a hundred years behind. If people are saying women’s football isn’t great, it’s because it hasn’t had investment similar to men’s football over the last century. It’s all about funding. You don’t want to always talk about money but that’s what’s missing.

The decision by Three to not renew their sponsorship deal was a devastating blow.

The main sponsors are a huge chunk of what allows us to compete so it’s a worrying time. With the accounts being released, at least now everything’s out in the open and everyone knows what needs to be fixed. It’s going to be an uphill task; there’s a lot that needs to be done.

When you say women’s football is a hundred years behind, you’re referring to the ban in the UK? In 1921, the Plymouth Ladies captain actually said the same thing: that the FA were “a hundred years behind the times”.

Yes, we’re still a hundred years behind because of the ban. The women’s game was really big, there were more than 50,000 people at games in 1920. Can you imagine if they didn’t ban it, and it had grown with the men’s game?

Has the issue of maternity leave ever arisen in teams you’ve been on?

It’s never been an issue. I remember at Sunderland – and don’t ask me why, because I wasn’t thinking of having a child! – I looked at my contract to see what’d happen if you had a child. Basically – I think – if you have a child, you’re out of contract. If you’ve been playing football for a long time and you have a child, you should be paid because it’s a natural thing. I shouldn’t not have a child because I’m playing football. It’s difficult though because, if I sign for a club for a season, and I’m gone for nine months because I’m pregnant… it’s something that needs more discussion. A lot of female players just don’t know what would happen.

FLORENTIA S.G. TRAINING GROUND, FLORENCE.
FRIDAY, 17:15. POST-TRAINING.

Training is over. What’s your state of mind?

Right now, I know I’m not starting tomorrow, so that plays on my mind. You know by the way the team is set up in training. I feel I’ve trained well this week, so I’m disappointed, but you have to be professional about it. I could get on, so I have to be ready either way.

Do you have a playlist that you listen to before a game?

I listen to all sorts of music. If you went through my Spotify, anything could come on. I like pumped up music before a game. I love Irish traditional music as well. I really like Bruno Mars, Picture This and Dermot Kennedy.

What has been your biggest achievement?

Playing for my country. That’s huge. Every time.

That’s a bigger achievement than the Puskás nomination?

Yeah. The goal was something special that was captured, and it took off. But playing for Ireland is the bigger thing. It was always my dream to play at senior level for Ireland.

Is there sexism within women’s football?

Yeah, sometimes. People who come from the men’s game can take a while to adjust. I’ve had male coaches not treat us the same as they would men. It’s as if they’re afraid to say the wrong thing. I’ve had strong coaches who do treat you the same as men; but sometimes male coaches are intimidated. I don’t know if it’s sexism, it’s more that their approach is different. As a player, I’d prefer a coach to treat me as he would a male player.

When was the last time you cried and why?

Yesterday. First by myself and then with friends. It was over football.

What’s your main fault?

My house-mate, Lois, tells me I’m too nice.

What’s your reaction to the release of the FAI accounts?

It’s such a shambles, isn’t it? You couldn’t make it up. You’d like to think the people in there fit the criteria to be able to deal with all of these things, but they’ve been doing a half-arsed job of it.

Will it affect team morale?

When you’re on the pitch you forget everything else and do what you have to do. You do your job. Obviously every player is disappointed and annoyed with what’s going on, but we’re just going to have to get on with it.

Tell me about your involvement in Niall Quinn’s ‘Football Visionary Group’.

Niall has come in with Kieran Foley and numerous others from different backgrounds. The proposal outlines how to bring the FAI forward. I was asked to help with women’s football. Change is needed, the whole country knows that. Now it’s a case of making it happen, not just talking about it, as has been the case for the last ten years. The FAI didn’t want to change anything, but their hand is being forced now with the accounts having been released. The next step has to be a big one. I believe the Visionary Group has the right ideas to make it work. It wants to help all football in Ireland, not just the League of Ireland, not just women’s football, not just grassroots; it’s about a better future for the whole of football in the country. That vision can be achieved if the group is given the backing.

What are your thoughts on John Delaney?

Obviously, it’s disappointing. As a player, you like to think the people in charge are making the right decisions, but it seems they weren’t. Everybody has their opinion on John Delaney at this stage. I’ve met him lots of times. He was always very nice, he always seemed to want to help women’s football. So it’s disappointment, really.

How do we fix the game at a grassroots level in Ireland?

In England, the FA have a hold over exactly what happens in grassroots football. In Ireland, there are too many associations and leagues doing their own thing. There needs to be better cohesion, from the FAI down, to make sure that everybody is doing what’s best for football.

The #MeToo movement doesn’t seem to have reached women’s football yet. How big is the issue, given the power balance between men and women in certain sports?

The former English manager, Mark Sampson, was accused of being with a player when he managed Bristol Academy. He’s had racial abuse allegations as well. But personally, I’ve never really seen anything like that. Managers with players? Yeah, you’d get that a little but I wouldn’t have known anything about it. You’d hear rumours sometimes and think, ‘ok they’re very close’ but I don’t know…

Will Ireland qualify for Euro 2021?

I think we will. We’ve made it hard on ourselves with the draw against Greece. It won’t be easy. We need a result against Germany, but with the squad we have, we’re capable of beating them. We’ll get ourselves back on the road if we beat Greece in March.

How do you increase attendance at international games?

The biggest difference between women’s and men’s football is that the women themselves have to promote it. We’ve got the 20x20 campaign now and RTÉ are showing the games, but without the players sharing everything… Our Ireland team WhatsApp group is hopping whenever the FAI post something, ‘Share that, retweet that’. All the players are really involved in getting the message out there.

Can integration between the men’s and women’s teams happen at league level in Ireland?

It’s funny you say it, because I was in the FAI when Kieran Lucid came in with the All-Island League proposal. I suggested to try it with the women as well. Shelbourne are affiliated with the men’s team, but so many of the women’s teams aren’t. That’s where women’s football is lacking. Could you get Peamount to partner up with Shamrock Rovers or whoever’s their nearest team, and then have an all-island league? For investors and brands, if they can see that it’s working with women and men, it would generate more money. But when I asked, Kieran said that it was just for men. So that’s what you’re up against. A lot of people aren’t even considering the women’s game – but from a branding perspective, anybody who’s worked in marketing knows that going forward, the women’s side is just as important.

Is there an Irish female footballer who’s extra special?

Denise O’Sullivan. She’s been nominated for RTÉ Sportsperson of the Year. She works hard and is a good player. There’s no airs and graces about her, she just gets on with it. She’s a special footballer, and a nice person as well.

Why is it harder for men to come out in football, than women?

It’s strange. If you’re a man, I think you’re going to be worried about getting slagged in the dressing room. I think it’s just fear. In women’s football it’s more accepted. I don’t ever wonder if one of my team mates is gay or straight; I’m not going to treat them any different.

Positive LGBT culture starts in the dressing room, not by wearing rainbow laces on TV. What can be done to make football a more accepting sport for gay men?

Yeah, they tried to do a bit with the rainbow laces. But more could be done. Sometimes people are afraid to approach the subject, because it’s always been so taboo. It needs for more men to come out together, so that others feel they can too.

PLAYERS’ TUNNEL, FLORENTIA S.G. STADIUM.
SAN GIMIGNANO, TUSCANY.
SATURDAY, 17:00. POST-MATCH.
FLORENTIA S.G. 2 – 1 A.C. MILAN

How do you feel right now?

It’s a strange one. I’m delighted the team won, but annoyed I didn’t play. It’s difficult when you’re not able to contribute. We’ve beaten Roma and now AC Milan, so it puts us in fourth position. I want to help the team, and I know I can do it so I’m just waiting for my opportunity. I can only control the controllable.

I watched you celebrate with the team; you laughed and smiled and hugged, but still, you were somewhat reserved.

I was annoyed. The celebration is difficult, because I feel like I haven’t earned it. I’m really happy that we won but I haven’t done enough yet to feel what they’re feeling.

RESTAURANT, SAN GIMIGNANO, TUSCANY.
SATURDAY, 19:00. POST-MATCH.

Do you have a five-year plan?

Yeah. Since I came back from injury my plan was to get back playing regularly, and get into the Irish team, which I’ve managed to do. I’ve been a squad player for the last three Irish games; I want to play as much as I can. My overall goal when I started playing football was to get to a major tournament with Ireland. We’re in the qualifiers now, so to get to the finals would be the icing on the cake. If I did that I probably would be happy to walk away from football, and have a family; I want my own kids.

If you had a girl who was good at football, would you encourage her to go professional?

I’d encourage her to play but I’d make sure she has her education as well. I was probably a bit naïve thinking, ‘I’m going to be a professional footballer, that’s all I need.’ The reality is I won’t be able to make a living out of playing football. I need to do other stuff and I’ll have to do courses in the next few years to get prepared for after football; media courses and coaching badges. I have my UEFA Youth Cert and I want to do the UEFA B badge too.

So are you able to put money aside?

The club look after us really well, and are good at making sure everyone has what they need and nobody’s struggling. Our housing and bills are paid for and we get a salary every month. I want to save money to buy a house; football wages aren’t going to cut it, so I need to focus on getting a proper job.

A proper job?

I know! It’s difficult to say that! But a job that pays more money than playing football. I’ve been working on it. When I was injured I started my own football coaching company, Stephanie Roche FC. At the minute I have people helping me, but when I finish playing I can focus on that.

Would you like to join the Irish camp as a trainer?

I’d like to think I’d be considered. If I get through all my coaching badges there’ll be a lot of girls finishing at the same time, so there’ll be competition. Ireland is a small country. Maybe I’ll go abroad… I loved it in America. Things didn’t really work out, but I’ve been offered different things over there.

Tell me about your US experience.

I really enjoyed it. The manager liked me. I had a conversation with him the week before I was let go, and he told me that I was the best finisher in the team. The club needed defenders; they tried to get a couple of American girls, but couldn’t. So, they had to get a foreign player. They only had three spaces on the roster for foreign players. But I don’t regret going; it prepared me for England. Looking back, I think I’ve done really well so far. There are parts of the last few years where I haven’t really enjoyed my football; that’s why I’m here: I’m hoping this season will see the tide turn.

Where there’s money in sport, there’s drugs. Is it a problem in today’s game?

I don’t know. We get tested. In our last international camp, we had doping people test two players. So it is quite frequent. And here, you have to write down everything you’ve taken, so if something comes up that isn’t on your list, it’s your own fault. Even if you have a cold or ‘flu you’d be afraid to take anything, just in case.

Are there performance-enhancing techniques in the Premiership?

There’s been loads of media reports about blood doping. There are clever doctors out there who are able to work around the system to enhance performance. They know what they can get away with.

How would you feel about managing a men’s team?

I’ve worked a lot with men over the last ten years. Most are quite open-minded once they get to know you, especially when they can see you’re a good footballer. But we’re still a long way from having the authority you need to be in charge of a men’s team. A few women have done it, but if things don’t go right, it’s always going to be because you’re a woman. But I wouldn’t have any qualms about doing it because I’ve grown up being around men all the time. I’d always talk football with my brothers, my dad and my boyfriend’s family. I wouldn’t be shy about giving my opinion.

What’s your prediction for the men’s playoffs?

They’ve made it hard on themselves. They’ll beat Slovakia. And I think they’ll do it against Northern Ireland or Bosnia; they’ve always done things the hard way. I flew home for the Denmark game and I was disappointed because I thought we showed them too much respect. When we actually went for it, we were the better team. There’s really good talent within the team. If we believe in ourselves, we can qualify.

What do you think of Mick McCarthy?

I like him. He’s done quite well. The players seem to like him and that’s a good sign. If players like to play for a manager it means he must be a decent person as well as a good manager.

What do you think about the transition from Mick McCarthy to Stephen Kenny?

Kenny’s doing very well with the Under 21s. They’ve got some great players. Some people want Mick McCarthy to play the younger players, but it’s a huge step. And when you’re working with a squad, it’s difficult to drop a senior player for someone who’s doing well but isn’t experienced in playing at the highest level. It’s important to let players develop, and play them when they’re actually ready. If we allow the likes of Troy Parrot and Aaron Connolly do well with the Under 21s, then Kenny can bring them through and the transition will be easier.

Have things have improved since 2017 when Irish women players went public with their grievances?

It’s strange because a lot of the players who were involved aren’t there anymore. The likes of Áine O’Gorman; I think she should be still there, she’s still able to play. I think there were issues with her and the previous manager where they had disagreements. I know Emma Byrne and Áine O’Gorman in particular were very passionate about getting it sorted. We knew there was a movement coming with the 20x20 campaign. I was proud to be part of the group, it brought us together on the pitch. We all knew it needed to happen. And it worked, because the squad and the level of professionalism has immensely improved. I think it’s going to help us get to a finals – hopefully Euro 2021.

Was there a reaction against people who got involved?

I don’t know. It’s difficult because I would have spoken to a couple of people and thought there may have been. There would have been rumours. I think certain people might have been phased out a bit. It would be very disappointing if that was the case, but who knows? Maybe we’re overthinking it. Maybe it was just that the manager didn’t want them. All the people who did it, did it for the right reasons. They weren’t being selfish, it wasn’t about them, it was about Ireland as a football squad.

But the manager has the final say?

Yeah. You’d like to think that. I don’t know if there were people behind the scenes getting involved or not. Colin (Bell) was quite a strong manager, I think he would have had his way. Hopefully. But yeah, there was Karen Duggan who retired early as well, Áine Gorman… I think Emma Byrne might have been finishing up anyway. But Emma could probably have given us another campaign. I don’t know if they felt pushed out or whether their time just came to an end.

What’s the best feeling you’ve ever had?

Scoring a goal. Scoring for my country, in particular. There’s a picture of me when I scored against Germany and I think you can see the passion in my face. It’s a photo I really don’t like, because I don’t look very pretty in it (laughs) but you can see how much it meant to score the goal.

What were your thoughts on Repealing the 8th Amendment?

I think everyone should be able to do what they want with their own body. In this day and age, everyone should be able to make their own choice.

Tell me something nobody knows about you.

Maybe I have a bit of a temper. No-one gets to see it because I’m very nice to people in general, but…

So who sees that temper?

My poor boyfriend, I suppose! Something has to really annoy me for me to get that angry (laughs).

Your advice for young footballers?

Work as hard as you can, while you can, because football is really short. Being injured the last two years has made me ask have I given my all, have I really done everything I possibly could?

And have you done everything you could?

I’ve a lot more to give. That’s partly what’s killing me at the minute. I want to play and show what I can do. Most people who know of me, know me because of that goal. So, it’s important to me to play at a high level and to prove myself again. If I don’t, I’ll just be known for the Puskás. Don’t get me wrong, it was an amazing thing, but I want to be known for more than that.

Postscript: The tide has turned. As the magazine goes to print, Stephanie has been named in the starting 11 for Florentia’s match in the Coppa Italia. A place in the quarter-finals is at stake. Forza!