“I’ve been told it’s a bit of grilling,” laughs Michael Kerrigan, talking about politicians who have undergone the famed Hot Press interroga- sorry, interview.

“Only if you have something to hide,” is the reply from your Hot Press interviewer. The curious thing is that, despite having served as the USI Vice President for the Borders, Midlands and Western region, as well as being President at GMIT’s Student Union, information about Michael Kerrigan is in short supply.

I found one recurring theme: Michael’s message that student voices need to be heard when it comes to decisions about educational funding. This was Kerrigan’s election platform, describing 2017 as a “defining moment in the history of education in Ireland.”

But with recent disputes surrounding the referendum for repealing the Eight Amendment, the introduction of consent classes in colleges, and the cancellation of an Israeli Ambassador’s visit to Trinity due to protests (which the Trinity Provost called “an attack on free speech”), our interview went above and beyond the themes of Michael’s victorious campaign.

Peter McGoran: What made you want to be USI president?

Michael Kerrigan: The main thing was the issue of higher education funding. Since I started in the Students Union, it was my priority to see something done about this. I’m hoping the issue will be solved this year – that we won’t see student loans schemes coming in, and that we’ll be working toward publicly funded education.

Were you political in school?

I wasn’t. I didn’t have an interest in politics until I started working at the Students Union in GMIT. It was when I saw the influence USI had – and in turn, the influence students could have – on government budgets and so on, that I became political.

Are you affiliated with any Irish political party?

Not at all. I wouldn’t know enough about political parties, bar what I need to know for my job, so I wouldn’t be in a position to make a decision on who to be affiliated with.

That might that make you seem a bit naïve.

Well, I have learnt a lot in the last few years. I’ve worked as a president, a welfare officer and an education officer in GMIT, so I would have covered a lot of areas that have affected students, which is the main thing.

Was your family political?

Not particularly. My dad canvassed for certain politicians he’d have been in favour of, but it wouldn’t have been for a political party.

Do you see yourself getting involved in the future?

I’ve thought about it. I’m enjoying the role I’m in now. But by the end of this year, I could just as easily turn around and never want to be involved again.

What does USI actually do?

It does a few things. We see USI as a lobbying group for students in Ireland, so we’d be lobbying politicians. We also organise student union events around the country. We have pre-budget submission lobbying days – we had one at Buswells hotel in June, where 170 liaison officers attended, and we had students from every college in Ireland, as well as secondary school students, with us. At the minute, we’re running campaigns to fight for free education. We want to stop loan schemes coming into Ireland like they have done in the UK and Australia.

And there are health campaigns…

We run campaigns on mental health, sexual health, physical health, working rights – it’s a long list. Then on a national level, there’s about 50 of 60 boards that we sit on, including HEA and QQI – so a lot of the time, USI officers would be the student voice on these national decision-making committees.

Why is publicly-funded education so important?

We currently have the second highest fees in Europe. Once Brexit happens, we’ll have the highest fees in the EU. The option of the student loan scheme has failed short term. It will cost Ireland €12 billion over the next decade if they implement it. And long term, these schemes have failed miserably in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, where there’s a massive amount of student debt just being written off. It’s also been responsible for causing students to emigrate. So that’s a further cost to the economy. It’s just a bad idea.

What do you say to people who argue that third-level education delivers economic benefits, and therefore has to be paid for?

The fee has risen by 363% in the last nine years. We were always given the line, “It’s tough times – this had to happen”, and yet there’s no other fee for anyone in the country that’s raised 363% in nine years. No other institution has been cut as much as we have: there has been, I think, a 12% cut to student grants, so students are stretched thin trying to pay for their education. We got 4 million back in post-graduate grants last year, which was a good start and something USI had been campaigning for. We hope to see an increase in that again. But we need to see both an increase in the threshold for grants as well as a reduction in the €3,000 fee. It’s too high. The government needs to recognise that investment in higher education works. Every euro that’s invested is expected to get an eight euro return.

Do you have hope of winning?

We’re planning a year-long campaign. It will involve a lot of lobbying, a lot of meetings with TDs and senators, getting as much of a media presence as possible, protesting, demonstrating, doing whatever it takes. Our number one aim is to stop the student loan schemes. Number two is trying reduce the €3,000 fee, and number three is to increase the grant access to students. We’ve been trying to rally people across the country. We’re hoping that’s what will have the influence on politicians when it comes to budget time.

You ran unopposed for the Presidency. Is there apathy among students?

I think it’s happened three times in the last six years, but it certainly isn’t the norm. Students find it difficult to run for positions in USI, because it involves a lot of travelling to different colleges, talking to classroom councils, and trying to get votes. It takes time and some people don’t have that time to give. This year we had twice as many candidates overall than the year before, which was good. We’re planning to promote the next elections a lot earlier, in order to get more people involved.

Is there an issue of students not caring about politics?

Quite the opposite. Students are more involved than ever. Marriage equality helped a lot with that, because students realised that they did make a difference. People say that without students it still would have passed, but the fact is that students were out on the streets campaigning, protesting, convincing people. It’s similar to the UK, where by supporting Labour, students had a massive influence on how things went at the last general election. You only have to look at the Labour Party in Ireland to see the impact students have. In 2011, Labour promised not to raise the fees. They got in – and raised them €250 a year for four years. Then at the last election, they lost 80 percent of their party’s seats. A lot of that was because they completely lost the student vote.

Some might argue that funding should go to improving primary school education before focusing on third-level.

That’s an interesting one. We are always wary that we don’t want to be pitting education sectors against each other, because we see them all as equally important. But at the minute, third level education is at crisis stage, so doing nothing isn’t an option in my eyes.

Should universities having higher acceptance criteria, so that they’re not bringing in everyone possible and saddling them with debt?

More people are being pushed into higher education, whether it’s from the universities themselves, or whether it’s career guidance counsellors. Or just parents pressuring their kids to go to third level, whether they’re suited for it or not. In many cases, other further education institutions or apprenticeships would be much more suitable. In Germany, it’s nearly 50/50 between people that go to higher education and go to apprenticeships. We need to skew away from pushing everyone into higher education just because it looks good. It’s definitely a factor in the poor retention rates we are seeing around the country.

How do you mean?

A lot of the time, students will say, ‘The only reason I did this was because my parents wanted me to go to college’; or ‘My career guidance councillor told me I needed to go to college’; or ‘I didn’t know what to pick, so I picked this and now I’ve realised it isn’t right for me.’ For a lot of students, apprenticeships would be a much better way to go, in terms of getting a job job and finding work they are interested in. The ex-vice chancellor of Queens has said, ‘No one needs students doing an Ancient History degree’. Why don’t more people do STEM subjects? Well there’s been huge increases in STEM subjects in the last few years, and the latest CAO results reflected better marks for students doing these subjects, which is great. But I wouldn’t agree with the ex-vice chancellor at all. You need a balance. There’s a lot more to college than just finding a job.

The issue of ‘no platforming’ is a big issue in universities in America and the UK – and now in Ireland.

The USI don’t particularly have a stance on that. Even at USI events, people feel like they can’t let their feelings be known all the time, because it’s maybe not the popular thing in the room and they could just be lambasted or shouted down for it. So, that’s not good. But it’s not on a huge level. I think people need to have a bit more respect for everyone’s views. It’s up to whoever is running a debate or holding a debate to be able to control that. If you gather a group of people who all have the same ideas and the same views, you’re not going to have a proper debate. And if you don’t have a proper debate, you can’t take a proper vote. But I don’t think we’re anywhere near as far along as some UK or US universities.

Is there anyone who, if they had planned to come to an Irish university, USI would oppose?

That isn’t a decision I would make, it would be down to our national council or congress. I couldn’t allow my personal views decide something like that, though it would depend who the person is and what they’re doing. We’ve seen in Charlottesville that there are things which just shouldn’t be tolerated. There’s the argument for free speech – but when you see swastikas and people marching through the streets carrying them, that isn’t the same thing.

What about censorship? Should universities be places where people are cosseted from the realities of the outside world, or should you hear views that are controversial?

I hadn’t thought about it a huge amount, but universities should be a places that are open to debate and learning. I don’t think there should be anything really held back when people are in third level. They’re adults. They should be able to engage in debate and if they don’t believe what someone else is saying, they should be able to either argue against them or just not engage with them.

Will USI be involved in the repeal the 8th campaign?

We’re in favour of ‘Free Safe Legal’ and have been for decades. We’ve been campaigning for a referendum on this since it was enacted into the constitution. I think currently eleven students unions have had ‘referendums’ on Repeal the 8th and all have voted to support. It’s our mandate to support it, so we’ll be campaigning just like marriage equality. The same kind of effort and work will be put into it.

It was suggested that the referendum may take place during summer 2018. Wouldn’t that be disastrous for students?

We would prefer it to take place earlier, because during the summer most students don’t know exactly where they’ll be living, and there’s also the matter of seven or eight thousand students going on J1 visas every summer.

Is the USI active in Northern Ireland?

Every member of NUS-USI (National Union of Students UK & Union of Students in Ireland) in Northern Ireland is a member of USI. The main issue we see in relation to Northern Ireland is Brexit. We’re working to ensure that students students or academics, who are maybe working across the border, will be able to travel and work freely. We need to make sure that students in Northern Ireland are taken into account during the Brexit negotiations.

The USI has been vocal in supporting equal marriage up North.

It’s legal in the Republic and it’s legal everywhere else in the UK, so it’s just in Northern Ireland where it’s not. Bills are constantly being vetoed when it comes to equal marriage, so we’ll keep on campaigning.

One of the big things that has happened this year is that we have hired a mental health project worker full time – that comes from government funding that we applied for last year. We are going to be conducting research on mental health in third level institutions to see exactly what students need and what we can do to help them. So we should know a lot more about whether what we are doing is working. We’ve always run mental health campaigns; it is important to let students know that there are mental health services there for them.

What are you doing about the housing crisis?

Part of our student accommodation strategy has been promoting our ‘Homes for Study’ initiative, which means encouraging homeowners to rent out rooms to students. There are thousands of free beds all over the country, and homeowners can earn up to 14,000 euro a year tax free by renting out a room. We have over 800 beds on our website at the minute, which students are availing of. But to be honest, the amount of student accommodation being built to relieve the crisis is not even matching the increase in student numbers. So it’ll be a long time before the situation is fixed.

What should the government be doing?

We want to see fast-track student accommodation being built – which is happening – but we’re getting a lot of backlash from residents associations, because they don’t want students in their backyards. That’s a difficult one that we’ll be trying to sort out in the coming months. You also run sexual health campaigns.
Yeah, when it comes to sexual health, we work with student unions to promote awareness. I think colleges and universities tend to do pretty well providing students with sex ed and they provide a lot of services, but a lot has to come from secondary education and this isn’t happening. Sex education is an embarrassment in this country.

There’s been a lot of discussion about sexual consent and rape culture at universities. Is that an issue for USI?

Consent classes and consent awareness campaigns have been working well within USI-affiliated colleges wherever they’ve been run. There’s been great work done at Queens University where they had a report that over 3,000 people responded to. It gave us a lot of information about sex at universities. We recently received training from the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre and we had representatives from student unions all over the country coming up for that. We’ve also got government funding to give out SHaG packs (Sexual Health and Guidance). We gave out about 40,000 shags packs last year. They had a lot of sexual health information, as well as condoms and lube and that. But when it comes to consent, it’s something that needs improvement. Nobody talks about consent before they come to college. A lot of people haven’t been happy with the introduction of mandatory classes. But we don’t have another solution at the moment.

Is there a problem with rape and sexual assault in universities?

There seems to be. The responses from Queens state that there is an issue there (over 160 students out of the 3,000 said that they’d been the victim of some form of sexual assault – Ed.), and that people need to be aware of those issues before they come to college. Trying to teach someone something as basic as consent when they are 18, 19 or 20 years old is difficult. It should be taught from a much younger age.

Is every student union affiliated with USI?

There are two universities that are outside USI (UCD and the University of Limerick), and a few smaller ones such as Royal College of Surgeons and private colleges like Dublin Business School, that aren’t affiliated. We’re trying to increase our membership. If you look at the National Union of Students in the UK, they have seven million members, which is crazy. About 70% of that is from further education colleges all over the country without an individual student union. We don’t have that in Ireland. We should be aiming to get these further education colleges involved.

Is USI’s legitimacy in question if certain unions are not affiliated with it?

We are recognised as the national students’ voice. If you look at the majority of their student union policies, they’ll be the same as ours. It’s gotten to the point where it’s only really brought up as a stick to beat us with. But that doesn’t happen much.

Is it an aspiration of yours to bring them back?

Yes, definitely. There are students in those colleges who have no influence in the USI – when they should have.

Do you have a role model for the job?

My predecessors, especially the four USI presidents I worked with over the last four years – Joe O’Connor, Kevin Donoghue, Laura Harmon and Annie Hoey. When I started I was not a huge fan of USI – and they changed it around, re-built the reputation of USI. It’s because of them and the team that the USI is in the position it is today. Since UCD left, Maynooth have come back, CIT have come back, and NCAD have joined. We’re the biggest we’ve ever been now, representing over 374,000 students – so I want to keep constantly improving.