Those charming men

"I never saw Elvis live. I never saw The Velvet Underground either, with or without Nico. I never saw The Stooges, The New York Dolls, The Sex Pistols or The Clash. I also never saw The Smiths. I particularly regret never seeing The Smiths." John Peel, March 1995

"When the pair of us got together I had my dreams about what I wanted my group to be, and he had his dreams about what he wanted his group to be." Johnny Marr is talking about the band he put together with a gentleman called Morrissey in the spring of 1982. "Luckily for us we wanted the same thing," he continues, "which was musically The Dolls and The Stones, and lyrically for him to be the first person to say something about real life in the place where he came from with a twist."

The Smiths made their live debut later the same year and at only their seventh ever appearance – a gig at the University of London Union – a group from Rough Trade Records attended and invited them to record and release a one-off single. Such was the band’s accelerrating reputation that they were already being inundated with offers, including one from Manchester’s leading independent label Factory Records.

"I think Morrissey had something to prove to his peers, which I was more than happy to support," Marr reflects. "As much as we admired Factory, that generation was older. I felt a lot of those post-punk Mancunians were always fairly patronising ‘we fought a bloody war for you!’ types. So it is ironic that we ended up on the same label as Mark E. Smith! But we had a pretty strong idea that Rough Trade was the right place for us. The band were happy to be outsiders and quirky. The label were perfect because they were outsiders and quirky."

The first Rough Trade 7" ‘Hand in Glove’, a shockblast of originality, was an instant underground sensation. They followed it up with ‘This Charming Man’, still a staple of indie discos everywhere. But when it came to recording their eponymous debut album, they left both singles off it, setting a precedent that was to mark them as arguably the best and certainly the most prolific authors of stand-alone singles in recent recording history.

"Morrissey and myself still knew what it felt like to be a fan," Marr explains. "It was important to us that the singles were like bulletins every few months to our audience. It felt like that we were a thorn in the side, if you pardon the pun. The thing about putting those singles out was that we didn’t sell records because we were on the radio, we got on the radio because we were selling records.

"I don’t go along with this sort of revisionism about how fabulous it was when we were on The Tube or when we did a Radio 1 Session because I remember us being treated like pariahs," he goes on. "On the TV shows, we were always short-changed with soundchecks and always got the dressing room at the very back of the building while the Bryan Adams’s and Paul Youngs and Tina Turners of this world would get the red carpet treatment. We were the ugly ducklings, but years later a lot of people patted themselves on the back for giving us a helping hand. But New Order and ourselves always had to fight to get our place and to get acknowledged."

Acknowledged they surely were; in fact, they were feted as visionary geniuses upon releasing The Smiths, a debut which showcased the awesome raw talents of Morrissey and Marr, coupled with the rhythm section powerhouse of Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce, who are both far too frequently overlooked as integral players in The Smiths story.

The band followed up their compelling debut with the career defining Meat Is Murder.

"I think we really began to hit our stride mid-way through making the second album," Marr observes. "It felt like all the grown ups had left us and let us get along with doing our thing on our own. At that time, ‘That Joke Isn’t Funny Anymore’, ‘Meat Is Murder’, ‘Well I Wonder’ and ‘The Headmaster Ritual’ all came about in the studio. I learnt how to put things together on the John Peel Sessions (many of which appeared on the classic b-sides/sessions compilation Hatful Of Hollow) and I had learnt a lot through working with John Porter. From then on, we didn’t work with a producer on albums."

While Meat Is Murder cemented their reputation as one of the world’s most inventive and original guitar groups, the best was yet to come.

"Obviously, The Queen Is Dead was the big one," Marr agrees. "One of the things I’m most proud of doing is that we said, ‘OK, if we are being called the new Who, or as important as The Pistols or this or that or the other, we better try and be that then’. We were swept along by that passion. But I wasn’t so sure when I started to write the songs for The Queen Is Dead at all. It was like; ‘Uh, OK. If everybody is expecting us to be the Second Coming then how do we do that? How do I get myself in the state of mind and inspired enough to be that great?

"And it really took it out of me. I guess it was because I was being compared to my heroes and my heroes are pretty intense and dark people. I felt that in order to live up to that I’d better live it, so we just went up a gear. It was that horrible new American expression ‘raising the bar’. The bar was raised and we had to get up there and we did and I’m proud of that. I guess it was worth it because people still talk about it."

Unusually for an international act at the peak of their powers, The Smiths toured Ireland extensively when it was extremely rare for most artists to play a date outside Dublin. A glance at their gigography reveals that they played Waterford, Limerick and Cork, the University of Coleraine, Galway’s Leisureland and the Letterkenny Leisure Centre.

"We wanted to go and play in Waterford, Coleraine and Letterkenny but we were told not to go because there was no money in it and the agent or whoever thought it was unnecessary," Johnny reveals. "But we were right to do all those gigs in towns in Ireland because they were fantastic gigs. Cold sometimes, but not by the time we finished playing! I think we had an affinity as Manchester Irish and it’s something I’d love to do again if I got the opportunity."

Any particular memories?

"I remember that on one of those Irish tours, we were listening exclusively to The Beatles’ White Album during the winter. We’d sit on the bus and I’d be really into the John Lennon song ‘Cry Baby Cry’ and ‘Glass Onion’. I think that was the main inspiration for me on the last album and it all came from that Irish tour."

Strangeways Here We Come proved to be The Smiths’ swansong, an album Marr is very proud of.

"I always liked the last album more than any of the others," he opines. "I think it has got a completeness about it and hangs together in an atmosphere really well. Also, I was confident enough to leave spaces and let some of the music breath, which is one of the reasons that it has dated so well."

Would Johnny like to have made more albums with The Smiths after Strangeways…? "If I would have done, I wouldn’t have left would I?" he laughs. Of all the Smiths’ post-mortem examinations, what did he make of Morrissey & Marr: The Severed Alliance by Johnny Rogan?

"I thought it was cynical," Johnny replies. "He didn’t know us and he wasn’t around. I think it would have been better written by someone who was the same generation of the audience. Someone who was up the front at our concerts and understood what it was like living for our next release."

"Unfortunately, there was and is a mini-industry documenting the negative aspects of the group and the split. Rumour becomes a story and then the story become a myth and myth becomes truth for some people. It has frustrated me over the years to see that the music and the feeling that people got from becoming a Smiths fan have become secondary to the more salacious aspects of the group’s split. I’m a fan of music and I don’t care for soap opera, but that’s what it has become. Its just cartoon land for me now."

But putting all gossip and quasi-mythology firmly to one side, The Smiths endure as a phenomenal band in the popular psyche. Their music is still played, loved and discovered by new fans all over the world.

"I think it endures because there was passion in it," Johnny Marr reflects. "It also helps that they are interesting songs. I think people respond to a feeling in a record as opposed to all the hoopla around it.

"We managed to live up to the hype and sometimes go beyond it," Johnny concludes. "The hype doesn’t endure but thankfully the music does. Things that are really inspired can shoot through generations like an arrow, whether its Bob Dylan or Nick Drake or
The Velvet Underground or The Beatles or whoever."

There is a Light that Never Goes Out…
Five magic moments from the Smiths’ story

1. Marr meets Morrissey
John Maher called round Stephen Patrick’s house in 1982 and suggested forming a band. The greatest songwriting duo of the ’80s was born. One of the first songs they wrote was the controversial ‘Suffer Little Children’ dealing with the Moors Murders.

2. The release of The Smiths
Even before their debut came out in 1984, the band were being vilified because of ‘Reel Around the Fountain’ and broaching the Moors tragedies. In reality, it was a scathing and angry indictment of the killers. The line "You may sleep but you will never dream" is even more biting after Hyndley’s recent death.

3. Top Of The Pops (see left)
Morrissey bewildered a nation more accustomed to Wham! by performing on TV with a bunch of gladioli dangling from his back pocket and wearing NHS glasses and a hearing aid.
4. Meat Is Murder goes to Number One
In February 1985, the second Smiths album topped the album charts immediately on release. The people had spoken.

5. The release of The Queen Is Dead
The Smiths masterpiece yet again incurred the wrath of the tabloids.
"We’re still at the stage where if I rescued a kitten drowning they’d say, ‘Morrissey Mauls Kitten’s Body.’ What can you do?" Morrissey pondered.