Loyle Carner: "For so long, I was so scared of failing that I didn’t want to take any risks, and just sat in my little comfort zone"

Like any good intro, Loyle Carner kicks off our interview with a casual impression of Michael Corleone in The Godfather: Part III.

“They pulled me back in!”, the British-Guyanese rapper laughs as we sit down via Zoom to discuss his fourth album Hopefully!, which drops just a week before Carner heads south to headline the Other Stage at Glastonbury.

It’s been almost three years since Loyle Carner – aka Ben Coyle Larner – released his last record, Hugo. Across 10 tracks, the rapper went deep on his identity, his mixed-race roots and complex relationship with his father. On Hopefully!, Carner digs even deeper, holding a mirror to his own journey as a parent, which he confesses was an exercise in healing his younger self. Carner tells me that with this album, he has “found a purpose”.

“I found a reason to be here and move forward every day, which is something bigger than myself, you know?” he chimes. “It’s also given me a reason to look at myself and see how my kids are a reflection of me. Some days they’re awesome, and I’m like, ‘Fucking hell, I’m awesome as well!’ Then other days, they’re anxious or angry or scared, and I realise I am too.

“Looking at my son is like looking at myself when I was young. We’re one and the same. In being a father to my son, I’m also being a father to myself in a way, and filling in some of the blanks I didn’t get as a kid.

“As the leader of the pack, it’s important for my partner and I to turn over our heavy stones and look at ourselves in that way. What better reason to make yourself a better person, because you know it’ll help the most important people in your life? My kids have given me everything.”

The artwork for Hopefully! features a tender snapshot of Carner with his son, adorned with vibrant scribbles and markings only a child could create with such intention. His son’s voice playfully drifts across the album, his spirited personality coming through clearly. Carner found that words alone couldn’t fully express the breadth of his affection for his children, so the songs take on a more fluid, abstract form – less literal but rich in emotional depth, shaped around the melodic essence of his children’ s curiosity and sense of wonder.

“They’re so immediate,” the clearly proud father beams. “They don’t think about yesterday or tomorrow. They’re just thinking about right now and that’s so infectious. So I became someone who lived in the present moment with this album. When I was younger or more anxious or egotistical, that was really hard to do. To get away from that and just let it happen was a dream. Curiosity is something you lose as an adult. As I get older, I’m trying to rediscover that over and over again. With kids, you really start to do that.”

Album opener ‘Feel At Home’ ferments this kind of sparse soundscape. Around the flicking percussion and gossamer guitars, his son’s voice fills the margins and Carner sings amid the hum of life at home. Towing this line of creative immediacy, ‘Feel At Home’ has a more untethered flow. For Carner, the track offered a lesson in letting things breathe.

“‘Feel At Home’ happened quickly,” he recalls. “I was at this guy’s studio called Zach Nahome. It was one of the few songs we made with just us in the room. I was trying really hard to not write long verses and overthink things. That which is hardest, is easier said than done. I remember making it and not thinking much of it, but everyone who heard it said it should be the intro.

“I didn’t agree at first. But the more I listened to it, I couldn’t escape it. It was just immediate and the drums are so chaotic. I think that track sums up the heaviness and the tranquility of my life, and the lightness and chaos of my children’s lives, and how they all intersect.”

Whereas Carner’s previous releases are suffused with the loose-jointed textures of jazz and gospel, Hopefully! takes a slight left turn, veering towards the guitar-laden, rockier sounds that soundtracked his youth.

“It’s the music I’ve always been listening to and am so inspired by, but it just never filtered into my own music,” he offers. “I guess I was a bit afraid of going against a stereotype, which I’m ashamed to say sometimes, you know? People look at you and think, ‘Oh, you’re a certain thing’. And you’re like, ‘Okay, cool. I’ll just be that forever.’

“My son and I were listening to a lot of music that I grew up on in the car. Lots of Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Smiths, The Cure, Elliot Smith, The Kooks, you know, fucking Fontaines DC! Seeing the songs resonate with him reminded me how much that shit resonated with me. I realised I needed to tap back into that, and I felt safe enough to give it a go and be a true representation of myself.”

For Carner, the main takeaway from this album is ”to not take myself seriously, and accept that it’s not going to be awful if it goes wrong. It’s okay to take the risk and see what happens. For so long, I was so scared of failing that I didn’t want to take any risks, and just sat in my little comfort zone. It’s good to be more comfortable being myself – it’s still a challenge. But you’ve got to speak it into existence and aim for it, or it’ll never happen. I’m taking the first steps.”

This November, Carner will bring Hopefully! on tour, which includes a date at 3Arena. Dublin is a very special place for Carner, as he played his first ever gig here at the Button Factory supporting MF DOOM in 2012, a week after his 18th birthday.

“I was actually at school when I got the call to go open for MF DOOM, and all the guys in my year were hatin’ because they wished they could’ve been there,” says Carner. “It was quite hard to go to Dublin. But somehow, my Nan had some money from an insurance payout and she bought my flight for 30 pounds.

“I met Rejjie Snow over there and stayed at his house in Drumcondra. I remember getting to the Button Factory and watching DOOM’s soundcheck. My mind was blown. I was playing some terrible songs that I’d written. After MF DOOM’s set, I rushed backstage to see him but he was already gone! There were loads of MF DOOM masks all over the backstage. I figured he exploded into thin air and left the masks.

“Every time I play in Dublin, it’s always the best show. No question. Everything about it is superior: the venues, the way they feel and sound, the stages and the people. Those shows are always very special. We played a few Vicar Street gigs which are probably the number ones for me.

“I want this 3Arena gig to be a celebration of the music we made. I want there to be a lightness, and not so much heaviness. I got kids that make me feel weightless, and I think that translates to the rest of my life.”

Hopefully! is out now. Loyle Carner plays 3Arena, Dublin on November 9.