The idea was simple: assemble a bunch of youth-wing party hacks and subject them to a Vincent Browne-style grilling. Hopefully, we would gain an insight into youth politics and the murky world of the on-campus political party.
The five undergraduates gathered around our coffee cup-strewn table in the old-world plushness of the Library Bar at Dublin’s Central Hotel are articulate and, despite their youth, speak with the authority of seasoned campaigners. There is a glaring gender chasm here, and believe you me we’ll come to that. But despite that they are, for better or worse, the established political parties’ next generation of politicians and activists.
The most obvious question, of course, is: why on earth would you join a political party in college?
“If you want to shape policy that’s where you have to be,” says Ciarán Delargy (Ógra FF). But aren’t college societies for drinking and cavorting? “They’re not mutually exclusive! I’ve had great nights out with Ógra Fianna Fáil”. The importance of retiring to the pub for drinks after a meeting is underlined by others around the table too.
Michael Clancy (Young FG), agrees that it’s about influencing policy and learning one’s trade. “What can youth politics achieve? I think if you look at the people who started off in student movements... Fine Gael have Lucinda Creighton and Leo Varadkar. It gives people lots more support, because the older wing in any party can act as a barrier for younger people getting involved. People wouldn’t feel so at ease with themselves otherwise.”
“A rule I have with my mates at home outside of the Labour party is that I don’t talk politics,” says Gary Honer. Some agree, some disagree. They’ve given up explaining to friends why they’d give their time over to politics at this age. There’s no point.
“I’ve actually lost contact with some friends because they don’t see why I devote my time to politics. But I’m sure there are people who take up guitar and don’t see as much of certain friends as a result,” says Oisín Ó Dubhláin (Ógra SF).
To some, on-campus politics are boring beyond comprehension. It breaks down into two spheres, each very much a love/hate fixation: youth branch politics – which is part of the general cut-and-thrust of campus society life – and student union politics.
“I think the political societies are even less cliquey than the other societies. They have to renew themselves constantly, and appeal to political-minded people. The last 20 years of corruption and scandal has put people off, so you really need to get out there and bring people to you,” says Ó Dubhláin.
In question here is public cynicism: it’s agreed that many people have a low opinion of politics, but apart from catchphrases like ‘engaging with people’ or ‘communicating the message’ more clearly it’s hard to know how to remedy it. To Barra Roantree of the Young Greens, there are wider sociological points to be made.
“I’m on the press release e-mail lists of some of the parties and organisations, and just seeing how they get reproduced word for word, edited down by the editor on the desk in the newspapers... I’m very cynical of anything I read. Something like 90% of all news is initiated from some press release.”
Later on, in a staunch defence of the Green record in government, Roantree takes us into the minutae of the planning laws. It’s not exactly sexy politics. “That’s the thing. I think we’re going to get really bashed because we’re making all these changes and people aren’t going to notice them.”
“I think it’s more cynicism about political parties and individuals and the spin rather than ‘politics’ per se,” says Honer, and most seem to agree with him. Michael Clancy intervenes: “You have to keep people interested. Start talking to them about ‘policy’ straight out and you won’t get any members, you’ll get a glazed look in people’s eyes. It’s a healthy balance.
He continues: “Young people are cynical about politics, and personally I put it entirely down to successive FF governments who misused public finances and created this disillusionment within Irish politics.” This causes a row.
Is student radicalism dead? “It is universities that tend to radicalise people, but there just hasn’t been that kind of radicalism since the ‘70s and ‘80s. The comfy middle classes want nothing more than to go to the nearest Starbuck’s,” says Roantree. Delargy disagrees. “Yeah, but a lot of the things that radicalised people in the ‘70s and ‘80s have been solved. Equality for so many groups.” Roantree scoffs:“Well there’s still no-one in council flats? There are issues that have been swept under the carpet. There’s still no national health service, transport is a mess but you don’t have that degree of radicalisation. That’s because a lot of us have just become accustomed to a consumerist type of lifestyle.”
The other side of the campus coin, then, is the student union movement. The table is divided on its usefulness. “I think the USI is relevant, and I think there needs to be a body representing the voice of students in a non-partisan way to the government,” argues Honer. Ó Dubhláin argues strongly that the USI needs huge reform in order to stay relevant. The trouble is that a student union, whether local or national, only really proves its worth in a crisis. “It’s one thing saying people are ‘put off’ by the USI, but most students are completely and utterly apathetic about student poltics, with 10% turnout rates... Most of my friends couldn’t give a fiddle.”
“The days of the big student movements are gone,” according to Clancy. “If you organised a rally tomorrow you’ll get half a dozen people... the saving grace will be fees, maybe. A huge, contentious issue.”
Ah, the F word. Delargy sticks his head above the parapet to the sound of knives being sharpened. “I’m only reading the same thing you’re reading in The Irish Times. 100K threshold. I think you need to take into account an increasing threshold for each child. First child, second child...
“Whether or not ye support it, there’s no point roaring about it from the get go. There are certain merits to the proposals and there should be a debate on it. I’m going to get absolutely slated for it within and without FF, but I’m in favour of fees. Simple reason is our colleges are underfunded. They can’t compete. I’ve said this to my mother. My sister’s paying for her second level education, why should the government pay for her third level? It’s fairly split in Ógra.”
The rest of them are, unsurprisingly, completely opposed. “It seems to be some sort of distraction,” says Roantree. “If our universities are so underfunded then we need to raise taxes. The fair way to go about it is progressive taxation. It’s all research-based now. At the protest Michael D Higgins said that education is an aim in itself – we want to have a society that questions power. That’s not what education is going towards at the moment.”
“The presidents of the universities are all in favour of fees,” protests Delargy. “Exactly,” says the Green participant. “They think that education should be them leading their university in a league table. It shouldn’t be about that.”
“Education isn’t a commodity, it’s a basic right,” says Honer, believing the whole fuss to be a ruse aimed at importing the Australian system of grants. “We’re miles behind the Continent, the investment levels aren’t commensurate to the amount of money the country is making. It’s an absolute farce. Middle class families never paid fees anyway, they set up covenant schemes in a tax loophole. Progressive taxation is the way forward. If we’re proposing a knowledge-based economy it shouldn’t be driven by a race to the bottom.”
“There is a chunk of this country where people do pay fees. People are going into courses and coming out with massive debts. It’s hard enough to get a house and a mortgage, let alone pay off this debt. It puts people off doing things. It wouldn’t be too hard for a lawyer or someone who’s being paid €150,000 a year, but for a nurse on €30,000 it’s going to be offputting for people who are necessary for society to run,” submits Ó Dubhláin.
To Michael Clancy, the current system undoubtedly helped to increase access to third level education. He says:“There are people sitting around this table today who wouldn’t have been able to go to college after coming out of second-level. I certainly wouldn’t have been able to put the money together. I want to go on to be a secondary school teacher. There is no chance in hell that if I had a debt over my head of 25 grand would I able to become a secondary teacher.”
But there is an elephant in the room today: the chronic under-representation of women in student politics. “In politics the percentage of women participating is very low. In general it’s abysmal,” claims Honer. Not everyone around the table is as pessimistic. “There are more women coming in. I’m very optimistic – the single biggest breakthrough for women in politics has been the last two presidents. Two fine women who have done tremendous work,” offers Clancy.
Would a quota system improve matters? “Nah, you pick the best candidate no matter who they are,” says Delargy. “Female candidates were the most successful in 2004. That’s why FF is specifically looking for young and female candidates.” “I can see a female Taoiseach in our lifetime, definitely,” agrees Honer. “It’s the societal barriers that have to be lifted,” asserts Roantree. “The political system is very bruising, the time pressures don’t allow for having a family...”
“I don’t want to be regressive and get into old stereotypes,” hopes Clancy, “but a lot of women – many more than men – aspire to having a family and children and a good household and don’t see politics as affording that opportunity.”
In the resulting disagreement, the only thing for it is to move on to something even more controversial: Lisbon. “We didn’t take a position because there were people who went both ways,” says Roantree. “Personally I thought the campaign was a sham from all sides. It absolutely drove me insane listening to Cóir. I voted for it but there were good reasons to vote against. People don’t seem to have any regard for how Europe works, they think it’s a federal system. Europe is regarded as a force pushing things upon us when the government in every instance has okayed it. The divide which has been building and building has finally come to fruition.”
Delargy, as the FF delegate, probably has to deal with the fallout more than the other parties. “The biggest problem was talking to people – I don’t blame them – who go through their lives without any interest in Europe. And so trying to explain the Lisbon Treaty when they didn’t know the basic parts of Europe were... the campaign wasn’t run as well as it could have been.”
“The Lisbon Treaty is a legal document. There’s a terminology there. If it was a French document it would be in the French language. Trying to explain that to the average punter in the street was an extremely difficult thing to do,” says Clancy. “And it wasn’t helped by the no side with blatant lies left, right and centre,” agrees Delargy.
Ó Dubhláin is very, very silent. In a way he can afford to be. He’s the only one around the table who campaigned against the treaty. The others gang up on him with guilt by association. “Libertas and Coir aren’t here,” he says. “But you were sitting there on the panels quite happily, best buddies,” responds Delargy. “That is absolute rubbish,” counters Ó Dubhláin. “There was a great level of debate among ordinary people…” “There was a pathetic level of debate”, interjects Clancy. Tempers begin to fray. “You had Libertas coming out and saying bad for business, Sinn Féin saying it’s bad for workers – it can’t be bad for everyone. Can something be bad for workers and business,” asks Delargy? “Climate change,” answers Roantree. “There’s your opening! Go! Go! Go!”
“Is the OFF member trying to make the argument that society is at war between workers and business?” jibes Ó Dubhláin to widespread laughter. Boys oh boys. All this masks the point that the youth vote came out solidly against the treaty, and apart from vague talk of ‘disconnection’, blaming the format of the treaty and the truth-bending of the anti-treaty right, the yes side are still stuck for answers, let alone a roadmap forward.
As if we didn’t need more bickering, it’s time to bring up the issue of abortion. If this really is the next generation of party activists then it’s something they’ll have to deal with: all agree that another abortion controversy is inevitable. Labour seems to be the only straightforward pro-choice party, with the Greens and SF abstaining and FG and FF opposed. “Choice Ireland was founded out of a Labour Youth meeting. We would be pro-choice. It’s a woman’s right to choose,” says Honer.
Clancy responds instantly. “FG is against the implementation of abortion in this country. Personally I’m against it. I’m not going to give you a spiel of biblical references, I don’t go in for that, but I see it as a moral issue. It’s about the taking of life of an innocent person who has no say whatsoever. There are couples in this country who will never have the opportunity to have children and have to actively go abroad to look for children. It’s life, and you don’t choose to end a life out of inconvenience.”
Honer disagrees. “When is a life a life? From conception? 24 weeks? Independent living? It’s very hard to distinguish. Women shouldn’t have to go abroad. I think there should be a vote on it.”
Sadly Hot Press, despite its godlike ambitions and unquestioned omnipotence in medicine and the sciences, doesn’t have the power to decide what is life and what is not.
“FF are strongly pro-life. It’s a really, really, really complicated issue. I can’t make my mind up on it,” says Delargy. “The courts have constantly called on the Oireachtas to legislate and they’ve ignored it. One way or another they’re going to have to start legislating. It shouldn’t be left up to the courts.
Clancy: “it’s inevitably going to come up again, and I would say it’s the most contentious issue on this island because it is so polarising. The hatred that it brings up between people...”
“It’s a political nightmare for any government,” agrees Delargy. In fact, everyone agrees that another campaign would be an unseemly affair. Delargy doesn’t think the electorate would vote for it. “If you look at how Lisbon went. Abortion? There’d be absolute mayhem.” Clancy agrees. “If we bring about the abortion issue we’re not going to have an open and fair debate on it.” Ó Dubhláin wants the debate anyway.
Once again, the absence of women around the table is a head-scratcher. The only thing that can be agreed on is that sex education is at caveman level.
Our state-of-the-parties discussion is essentially an excuse for a slagging match, and it’s great fun to boot – though perhaps not as fun as the FF-FG paintball war that was mentioned. Honer slates Brian Cowen’s style of balladry. “The Taoiseach has a great voice!” retorts Delargy. Roantree gets a sheet of paper and writes ‘Civil War’ in big, illegible letters while Clancy and Delargy argue. The two civil warriors sit arms-folded when Roantree brings up his desire for a united left platform. “I’d love to see it happen”, says Honer. “Labour, Greens, Sinn Féin, likeminded left independents. It can happen. Leftwing co-operation has worked across Europe. It’s a viable possibility for the next election.”
Of Sinn Féin themselves, Ó Dubhláin says that “if there was no communication between the political wing of republicanism and the military wing then the peace process wouldn’t have happened.”
Far less contentious is the issue of the US elections. Delargy has money on McCain to win, but hopes Obama will: “I couldn’t stand four more years [of a Republican government].” “If he starts flip-flopping on the issues like Kerry did he’s going to get destroyed. Opinion polls aren’t to be trusted. I know, I’m in Labour,” jokes Honer.
In a way it’s a surprise to find a similar consensus on climate change. All those around the table are taking it very seriously, to the point that they’re not sure if enough can ever be enough. “I’m very pessimistic that we can actually do anything in time because the shift is so seismic. I don’t think it’s going to happen. Everyone needs to change their life style so much and the government can’t force that change on people. Sufficient change by sufficient people in sufficient time. That’s the massive element,” says Green Barra Roantree.
Coming to the end of our debate, it’s time to find out exactly how idealistic the next generation is: if they were Taoiseach for a day and could do only one thing, what would it be? Ó Dubhláin immediately wants to nationalise land and banks, but we think he’s joking. He was also joking when he said he wouldn’t serve as Taoiseach in a divided Ireland.
Immediately Honer would “implement a universal healthcare system free at the point of access for all citizens.” Roantree’s choice is less self-explanatory: “introduce basic income for all citizens. It’s like the dole every week to every person without exception, funded through resource taxes or progressive taxation. It means you don’t have a situation where they’re forced to work in dead-end jobs.”
The FG and FF proposals are much more measured. “I’d cut my holidays short and kick-start the national pay talks. Social partnership has been a key component of the Celtic Tiger whether you like it or not,” says Clancy. Delargy agrees. “I’d go in there and I’d sort them out. Actually, a Luas north line would be good.”
Finally, Ó Dubhláin revises his earlier comment: “put in place a progressive taxation system that would provide for all these ideas and more,” he says, pointing to the Labour and Green idealism.
Clancy interjects: “it sounds very nice, progressive taxation, but what does it actually mean?”
He knows exactly what it means. Another argument erupts, and we’re out of here. As colleges gear up for freshers’ week these guys will be roaming the campuses trying to convince people that political activism is more rewarding than spending one’s time with the Ultimate Frisbee crowd. That’s nothing compared to what they’ll be asking for next time you might encounter them: they’ll be looking for your vote.