Room to Gloam: An interview with The Gloaming

When Thomas ‘Doveman’ Bartlett was just a 12-year-old music fan, living in Vermont, he booked famed Irish fiddle maestro Martin Hayes to play a gig in his New England hometown. It was an extraordinarily precocious statement of intent, coming from a pre-teenager.

“Yeah, that happened,” the now 34-year-old pianist and producer chuckles down the line from his New York recording studio. “I had met Martin the year before – in Ireland, actually. I saw him on tour and then, yes, I contacted his manager, just as a fan, asking if he was ever going to play in Vermont. And she thought that she was dealing with a concert promoter, so I actually ended up booking the concert for him.”

Presumably his parents were relatively indulgent types?

“Oh, they were fine with that,” he says. “My parents have always been a nice combination of indulgent and supportive. But they always strike an interesting balance. Like, when I said I wanted to study piano when I was four-years-old, they said, ‘Sure, but you have to call the piano teacher yourself’. They were supportive without becoming doting parents, trying to push me towards opportunity or whatever. They made sure that I took responsibility.”

Fast forward two decades and Thomas Bartlett is a highly successful music producer, renowned for his work with the likes of Sufjan Stevens, The National, Glen Hansard, Antony and the Johnsons, and many others. What’s more, he is actually playing in a band with his childhood idol.

“Well, we stayed in touch on and off after that,” Thomas explains. “We would kind of check in with each other. I loved watching him live, so I would always go to see Martin play whenever he was nearby, and we kept in touch by email and saw each other every couple years, I guess.”

The admiration was obviously mutual. A few years ago, when the Clare-born fiddler had the idea of putting an Irish trad ‘supergroup’ together, he picked up the phone to the one-time concert promoter! It was the beginning of a truly extraordinary musical journey.

First formed in 2011, the resulting agglomeration, named The Gloaming – a word with origins in Old English, meaning twilight – consists of Hayes, Bartlett, sean nós singer Iarla Ó Lionáird (formerly of the Afro Celt Sound System), hardanger innovator Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh and Chicago-born guitarist (and long-time musical cohort of Martin Hayes), Dennis Cahill. Recorded in Grouse Lodge, their genre re-defining, self-titled 2014 debut wowed critics from across the musical spectrum, sold well, and won the Meteor Choice Music Prize, ultimately storming in ahead of superb records released in the same year by the likes of U2 and Damien Rice, among others, in the process. It was a measure of the genre-busting impact of the album that it attracted support from rock afficionados as well as supporters of folk and trad.

Following on from that hugely gratifying – if somewhat unexpected – success, the band are now set to release their second album. But that wasn’t necessarily the original plan. “I don’t think any of us had particularly clear, preconceived notions about where this was going to go,” Thomas reflects. “Basically we got together at Grouse Lodge in 2011 and just tried to come up with some material. Someone had had the foresight to book us some shows after that; the shows went really well, so we decided to make a record.

“I don’t think there’s ever been a plan of like, ‘Okay here it is – this is the band and ever shall be’. And I wasn’t particularly looking to join a band, honestly. I mean, I spend most of my life in the studio – so if someone had told me a few years ago that I was going to become part of a band I would have said, ‘I’m not sure I’m up for that’.” The old line, appropriated by John Lennon for ‘Beautiful Boy (Darling Boy)’, that life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans, has scarcely seemed more appropriate. Had the band any sense of what the reaction was going to be?

“It was very gratifying, but no – I certainly didn’t. I was kind of amazed by the reactions actually. It took me by surprise. Definitely. The thing is, the record was made quite quickly and I certainly didn’t think that this was going to be an album with major impact. It really was just the five of us feeling each other out musically, and working our way towards a sound.”

If they were working their way towards a sound, was there an underlying spirit or purpose to that endeavour?

“For me, a lot of it, as a very long-time fan of Martin’s, was trying to find interesting, new ways to, kind of, re-frame the way Martin can be heard,” he says. “So part of what was interesting, for me, is that I was definitely not thinking or aiming towards Ireland specifically; and also, I was not aiming towards traditional music. In a way, I was thinking – partly at least – of trying to make a record that would make sense for me to play to other artists I work with, as a new way of hearing Martin and his music.”

Drawing from the deep well of Irish literature and storytelling, The Gloaming’s lyrics are all delivered as Gaelige. Thomas Bartlett doesn’t actually speak the language. In fact he doesn’t understand it. But for him that does not represent an obstacle. On the one hand, there is an inherent musicality in the language. And on the other? Well, it isn’t hard to get a briefing on what the songs are saying...

“Definitely this is an odd band, in which half of the names of tunes I don’t know how to pronounce them,” Thomas laughs. “I’m not even quite sure if I’m saying ‘Iarla’ or ‘Caoimhín’ right either! But Iarla tends to talk to me about what the lyrics are. He’ll explain to me what they mean, and so I do have a sense of what the lyrics are about.”

But, from a strictly musical perspective, it ain’t so much what Iarla sings, it’s the way that he sings it...

“I work with a lot of people who are very lyric-forward,” Thomas reflects. “I’m thinking of someone like Sufjan Stephens, and people like that. But I’ve also worked for many years with Antony [Hegarty]. And, as interesting as Antony’s lyrics can be, I think what most people respond to with him is really just the timbre of his voice and the kind of emotions in the notes themselves. So for me, it’s not that strange, not knowing the language.”

As with their debut, Bartlett produced the new album. They have simply titled it The Gloaming 2. “I was very open to there being a title, but none appeared that felt fully compelling,” he explains. “And to me, especially since we have another image by the photographer that I’ve loved for a long time – Robert Parke Harrison – that is actually from the same series of photographs that the first record was done with, well, that felt like enough information to me, basically. I didn’t want any extra words to kind of colour it or anything. I just wanted it to be as straightforwardly – ‘And here is the second record’ – as possible.”

The new album was recorded in the sanctified territory that is Peter Gabriel’s Real Wold Studios near Bath – and is released on the Real World label. Was the man himself around? Thomas Bartlett’s answer says it all about The Gloaming: the music, and the instruments needed to make it, at the heart of everything.

“He wasn’t, no,” he says, “but he did let us use his Bosendorfer piano, which is an extraordinary instrument, so I’m very grateful for that.”

Despite the change of location, the five musicians pretty much picked up where they had left off in Grouse Lodge. Re-imagining and modernising the ancient in a way that is genuinely innovative and challenging, The Gloaming 2 is as haunting, spiritual and emotionally-charged as its acclaimed predecessor.

“For me, it feels very much like a continuation of the first record,” Thomas says matter-of-factly. “I really didn’t feel like we had exhausted the possibilities of the five of us in the room playing. I felt like there was more to be said with a similar sound, and I didn’t feel any need to reinvent the band or come in with a totally new concept.”

However, what did occur to Thomas, is that the second record might offer the opportunity to further develop the inter-actiion between the very different fiddle-playing styles of Martin Hayes and Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh.

“What I really enjoy,” he confesses, “is that, on the first record, it felt like it was kind of a happy accident of, ‘Oh, the five of us got together and this sound came together’. Listening back to it I’m kind of amazed at how coherent it sounds in a way. But with this record, I was really determined to create a bit more space within the music, especially in the interactions between Martin and Caoimhín. That’s one of the things I’m really excited about on this record, just the way that the two of them are really playing off each other.”

Is Bartlett’s say as producer final, or is he open to suggestion?

“Oh, there’s plenty of discussion for sure, yeah – with this band, and with all of the records I produce. I’m not a kind of ‘my word is final’ kind of producer at all. It’s very much an ongoing conversation.”

Not to jump the gun, but are plans already afoot for The Gloaming 3?

“No, I haven’t started thinking about that,” he admits. “I would have totally assumed that we will eventually. But each of us has fairly busy, separate careers, and I’m very much trying to limit the amount of time I’m on the road, because I want to be in New York working on records. Our manager has been amazing at crafting schedules in such a way that we are able to get work done, and play the important concerts, and still have time to record. I’m sure he has a plan in mind. I just haven’t been told of it yet.”

Thomas Bartlett is not exaggerating when he speaks of having a busy career. He’s currently got his fingers in many, very tasty, musical pies.

“I’m working on a record with Martha Wainwright right now, and I’ve got something coming up with Anna Calvi,” he says. “I’ve just done some stuff on Lisa Hannigan’s record actually, a couple of weeks ago, just some final touches on that. Me and Nico Muhly, he’s a composer friend of mine, we’ve just finished a record of songs together that will come out later this year.”

So it is all go!

“I’ve also got a covers record of Neil Young’s Harvest album that I produced,” he adds. “I’m not actually sure when it will come out, but it’s pretty much done. It has Norah Jones, Glen, Martha Wainwright and Bon Iver and a load of other people on that. So yeah, there’s a whole bunch of things. I’ve got a bunch of records.”

The covers route is not entirely new for Bartlett. He himself has previously done a complete remake of the Footloose soundtrack...

“That’s right!” he laughs. “I did re-do the Footloose album, yeah. That was quite a while back. But the Harvest record is not me singing. I produced it, but it’s all different singers.”

He insists that he doesn’t dwell too much on the commercial prospects of any album he’s working on.

“Thinking too much about what the things are that will appeal to other people, or ‘how do I make a song that’s gonna get on the radio?’, is very rarely the right call,” he reflects. “Because, at least in my life so far, quite consistently the things that I think, ‘Oh well, this sounds really commercial’ or ‘this is gonna be a big deal’, they never end up being a big deal. It’s the ones that I was making without any thought of commercial viability, or anything else, that end up doing very well. The Gloaming is a prime example of that. With that, I really had no thought in mind of, you know: ‘How do we make this a successful record?’”

As a US citizen, what’s Bartlett’s take on the current race for the US Presidential nominations?

“Oh god, it’s such a shit show,” he sighs. “I’m from Vermont, you know. Bernie Sanders has been one of the things that we have been very proud of coming from Vermont for a very long time – so I would dearly, dearly love to see him as the President. But that seems unlikely.”

Of course, The Gloaming are very much the kind of band that get asked to play at the White House, maybe even on Paddy’s Day...

“Yeah, I never thought of that, but it’s true,” he laughs. “That would be really fun to go play for Bernie at the White House. I would love that.”

Would they play for President Trump?
“Absolutely not!” he insists. “Although funnily enough, one time, maybe eight years ago, I played Donald Trump’s birthday party. So I have once before played for Donald Trump.”

Did he meet him?

“No, I did not meet him. I was kept well out of sight, except for when we were on stage.”

What’s been the high point of Thomas Bartlett’s career?
“The high point of my career?” he repeats. “That is a difficult question. But I’ve had a lot of thrilling times. I guess the high point of my career is just those strange little moments in the studio, where I just feel like me and a singer are really connecting, and we are making the thing that is making me so happy.

“But in terms of performance moments, I did a bunch of concerts for Antony and the Johnsons, for a while, that were orchestra shows. So I would be playing the piano and then Antony singing and then an orchestra – and those had some of the most thrilling moments for me, those concerts. He destroys me. He is just such an extraordinary singer and artist.”

The Gloaming 2 will be launched with a show in London’s Union Chapel on February 26th, followed by a string of dates in Dublin’s National Concert Hall. Is he looking forward to going on the road?

“We’re not doing a huge amount actually,” he confides. “We’re playing in London on the release day and then we’ve got five shows in Dublin. I think there’s a show in Lisbon, and then a little bit of a break, and then a kind of short stretch with a couple of shows like the street festival in Knoxville, Tennessee, called Big Ears and a few other shows around that. Then I think we pretty much don’t play again until around the Fall. So it’s not a huge amount of touring.”

When they do go out on the road, just how rock ‘n’ roll are The Gloaming?

“Ha, ha! In terms of the lifestyle on tour?” he guffaws. “Well, I’m not sure that a rock ‘n’ roll group is as rock ‘n’ roll as a rock ‘n’ roll group is supposed to be nowadays! Like, the last few tours that I’ve been on have been such completely sedate affairs. On Glen Hansard’s tour, pretty soon after playing the show, Glen and I tended to change into our pyjamas and sit there drinking tea on the bus and watching movies... so this trad band is certainly as rock ‘n’ roll as that!”

He laughs again. They can drink Horlicks after a gig if they like. With The Gloaming, all of the incendiary stuff takes place in the music. And that, after all, is what really matters...

The Gloaming 2 is out in February 26th on Real World Records