Back in the old days (meaning pre-1980s) it was never assumed a comedian wrote their own material.

Before the alternative comedy boom it used to go like this.

The cynical and heartlessly businesslike hacks of the comedy scene would gather before a gig, ransack their big book of old jokes, before divvying up who'd use what on the evening, so that they all wouldn't be saying the same thing.

Since the '80s, this has all changed. All these earnest, artistically serious young men poured into comedy, flagrantly bastardising traditional joke forms and fearlessly thrusting their untrammelled individual "vision" in the audience's face.

Nowadays, when people go and see a comedian, they like to think they're seeing someone performing their own jokes (those that is, who assume there is any writing behind stand-up at all).

However, now the 'comic as auteur' concept appears to be in retreat again.

Stewart Lee accused several high profile UK comics of using writers and said he hoped to see a day when such performers would be "disgraced like Tour de France drug cheats."

Michael Mee is a stand-up comic who has written for many well-known stand-ups and TV panel shows.

"I suppose it comes down to the conflict between 'comedy as art' and 'comedy as show-business.' I agree with Lee that comedy should be artful but realistically people have to pay the rent," he says a touch wearily.

"I do think when people go and see an act, they like to think they're genuinely seeing that person, but a lot of the time you're just helping out someone who might be under a lot of pressure, or not have much time for writing," he argues.

Mee feels Lee is conditioned by the era he arrived into comedy.

"Everyone is nostalgic about the time they started out. He (Lee) arrived into comedy at a time when it was genuinely alternative, but if you look at it historically, that was a short window. That wasn't the historical norm."

When asked if he feels any pang of regret when he sees jokes he's written bring the house down for another comic, he is philosophical.

"A lot of what you're writing, it could work for someone else but it might not work for you. A lot of stand-up is about persona. Sometimes if I write a joke that I feel would suit my persona, I just wont send it on."

Comedians who use joke writers are not particularly keen to shout about it from the rooftops.

After stand-up shows, Lee noted, one will often see odd, shadowy credits like "Programme Associate" which Lee says is "television language for 'There is a writer but we're going to give him this name because we want to preserve the idea that the comedian is hermetically sealed and you're getting this person's individual vision'."

Mee is fairly relaxed about the lack of credit accorded to these joke writers.

"There's kind of an understanding that it wouldn't go down well that comedians are using writers. I mean, I've written for panel shows and live stand-up but for the live stuff you wouldn't be credited."

Furthermore, he says, his role as a writer can often be overstated. Often, it is similar to that of a sounding board and an adviser.

"You're sitting down, work-shopping the material, shaping the jokes, making suggestions," Mee says. "Sometimes, the comedian would have the germ of an idea but he needs to flesh it out and get it in the right context."

Rory O'Hanlon, a London-based Irish stand-up comic, agrees.

"I've helped people out if I saw them and thought something could be added to their routine to improve it."

However, O'Hanlon is adamant that "it should always be part of someone's repertoire to be able to write their own jokes."

Abie Philbin Bowman

From watching the video, I think it's pretty clear that Stewart Lee is joking when he compares these comics to Tour de France dopers. He says he likes to imagine them being disgraced someday (to laughter) before conceding that only a disgruntled, middle aged comic like himself would have such concerns. I have difficulty imagining a world where a comedian gets kicked out of the Edinburgh Fringe for failing a drugs test.

He then goes on to draw a very apt analogy with the music business - where singers of all backgrounds frequently sing material written by other people. And nobody seems to mind. Interestingly he holds The Beatles up, as changing a culture where early "boy bands" who didn't write their own songs predominated. It's an interesting analogy because, in addition to writing some of the greatest pop songs in history, the Beatles also did their fair share of covers. Frankie Boyle or Michael McIntyre might use writers from time to time, but if you look at all their work, I'd be prepared to bet that they wrote a lot of the "greatest hits" themselves.

I don't think anyone makes it onto British TV purely on the basis of jokes written by other people. You have to be able to write your own stuff. The only time you'd need writers is when you've become so big, and spend so much time on TV and on the road, that you haven't got time to write enough new stuff to keep going. It's a bit like having a manager.
In the early days you don't have enough gigs to make a manager sustainable. You have plenty of free time to book your own gigs. It's only when you're too busy doing gigs to do all the admin, that it makes sense to get a manager.

I like Stewart Lee's idea of a comedy auteur who gives you a personal take on the world, in the course of an hour long show. That's certainly the style of comedy I've been doing for several years, trying to create a show with a beginning, middle and end. But sometimes it's about the fit.
Monty Python was a group of six guys who shared a comic vision, and it didn't matter if John Cleese was doing Michael Palin's lines or vice versa.

There's also a lovely tradition in Irish comedy where comics suggest jokes to each other. If you're watching someone's set and you can think of an extra punchline for one of their jokes, you can suggest it to them. Obviously, if it's an entirely new joke, you keep it for yourself. But if it's a twist, or a topper on someone else's idea that you couldn't use, you just pass it on. After an early run of "Jesus: The Guantanamo Years" Damian Clarke suggested a lovely line to me about the difficulty of eating Skittles when you have stigmata. I love that gag. When Matt Sadlier gave up comedy, he said I could have my favourite one-liner from his set. Every time I tell that joke I think of him: "I love the Australian flag: it's 'Britain, at night'..."

Abie Philbin Bowman