Father Shay Cullen was the subject of a major interview in the last issue of Hot Press. Carried out by Jason O’Toole, it was a long, involved and interesting exchange.

It covered all of the issues that concern Shay Cullen – most specifically the exploitation of young children via sex tourism in the Philippines. If you haven’t already read it, dig out the issue of Hot Press with Richard Dunne and Glen Hansard on the front and give it the time.
Cullen is the type of person who might just give the Roman Catholic Church a good name. He is radical, committed and has the interests of ordinary people at heart. He has shown considerable courage in taking on the authorities and the criminals behind child prostitution alike. He has been the target of a number of death threats – but he has not been cowed. He is still on the frontline, fighting the good fight.
Which leads to a whole host of other lateral questions about the Church and its role in the modern world. Approaching the interview, we felt that it would be important to let someone who commands respect for doing dangerous and vital work give his views on what are potentially key issues, in terms of people’s belief systems and the value – or otherwise – of religion. The role of missionaries in developing countries is itself a fascinating subject. On the face of it, the reason, in the first instance, for their presence on the frontline is to prosletyse. They may do it by carrying out good works, and by involving themselves in the community. But in the end their motivation, in old fashioned terminology, is to save souls and win converts to their own brand of religion.
What was disconcerting was that Father Shay didn’t want to get into questions about that brand – and how it compares to what is on offer elsewhere. In response to a question on Islam, or example, he made the observation that the Second Vatican Council recognised that all religions have great truth and wisdom and holiness in them. “The time of triumphalism is past and there has to be profound respect for the religions through which others find their way to God,” he added.
Fair enough if that is the case. And so, the editorial border guards suggested going back to him along the following lines: “If you take this at face value, then Jehovah’s Witnesses, Moonies, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Scientologists and so on all deserve profound respect. Does he agree? If so, shouldn’t the persecution of these people – e.g. Scientologists, who are treated like pariahs in Ireland – stop? And if not, then what is the cut-off point?
“Why is a religion invented in the seventh Century worthy of greater respect than one invented in the 20th, like Scientology? Is it not of the essence for Christians that Christianity is the one true way? That you have to take Jesus into your heart to find redemption? If this is not the case, then shouldn’t they say so – because that is the essential teaching with which most Catholics and Christians were brought up?
“If all religions are equal – or deserving of equal respect – then what is the point of adhering to one of them rather than another? And is a profoundly held atheism not worthy of equal respect to any religion?”
Father Shay decided that he didn’t have time to – or didn’t want to – answer these questions.
We also got around to the subject of hell. This, it seemed to us, was not a trivial matter – but Father Shay didn’t want to comment here either. The border guards were not impressed. Surely, they reasoned, it is pretty fundamental to the Christian view of things that people will be rewarded for living a good life by sharing in God’s eternal love in heaven? We wanted Jason to pursue the matter further, along the following lines...
“Is there an afterlife for sinners in which they suffer eternally or not? Is there an afterlife for believers in which they are rewarded? Will there be a day of judgement? Rather than dancing around these questions, can he just say what he believes? Or is it just that he is afraid to acknowledge what he feels in his gut? Or that he is afraid to say what he truly believes for fear of sanction from the Church authorities?”
There was one point during the exchange when Father Shay mentioned the possibility that his enemies would be watching what he said and he referred – obviously quite seriously – to the possibility of excommunication. But his answer in the end was to dismiss questions of this kind as ‘medieval non-questions’…
That, it has to be said, seems like a strange put-down from a minister representing a religion that is based entirely on the variously reported words and deeds of a man who lived all of 2,000 years ago. Bizarrely, however, it seems that the Vatican may indeed have been watching, because – lo and behold – since the interview was published, Pope Benedict XVI has come out to clarify the matter definitively.
Yes, there is a hell.
In explaining this, the Pope said that people who fail to admit blame and promise to sin no more risk eternal damnation – the inferno.
“Christ came to tell us that he desires all of us in heaven,” the Pope said, “and that hell, which isn’t spoken about much in our time, exists and is eternal for those who close their hearts to his love.”
Now this is good stuff. Because, the way I see it, you either buy the package or you don’t. Either Jesus rose after three days, rolled back the stone and ascended into heaven or he didn’t. If he did, and heaven is where believers who cleanse themselves of sin ultimately go to bask in the glory of the love of God, then there must be some place else, where the rest of us mortals go.
And, yes – if you believe in this stuff – this means that all of the people from throughout the time homo sapiens has patrolled the earth have to be one place or the other. What else is it all about?
It is about salvation. And its inevitable corollary, damnation.
Theologians can dress it up and they can kick it around, but that, truthfully, is what it all comes down to. And the basis of ‘faith’ is that being a Catholic, or a Christian, means that you make it across the line when others not of that persuasion don’t. Jesus is the saviour. You find him, you’re saved. You don’t – well, what? You reject him, as Jews and Hindus do (to select just two alternative religions) and what?
If you can be Jewish or Muslim, Mormon or Moonie and still make it through the pearly gates, then what is the point of saying that we have to open our hearts to Jesus?
What I like about Pope Benedict is that he brings it all back to basics. You’re either on the bus – or you’re off the bus. That, my friends, is what it’s really all about…