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my understanding of nama
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is that the 'property developers' are paying the money back on the loans to NAMA via the banks, but if that they default it's NAMA who ends up with the assets .
obviously what'll happen is that the developers will be going in and trying to get everything knocked down in terms of payments but who'll rule on that
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-- tricky
31/03/10 at 11:43
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 From :
evil_giraffe
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Posted : 05/04/10 at 00:29 |
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Not ignoring you snapshot, to an extent what you're saying is true, though some people say that these "investors" lend to regimes rather than states....change the regime, restructure your debts, and people will be willing to lend to "Us" again.
I'm not entirely sure if that applies to a backwater like Ireland though.
There are some interesting articles out there on this, I'll dig them out when I get a chance. Not now though....wine.
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From :
igor
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Posted : 05/04/10 at 08:35 |
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| Evil Giraffe, are you a taxi driver??
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From :
number10
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Posted : 07/04/10 at 19:37 |
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| What's with the taxi driver accusation, Igor? I'm curious!!!
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From :
koerut
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Posted : 08/04/10 at 16:53 |
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Interesting post by David McWilliams about the neo-gombeenism of it all
David Mc Williams link
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From :
igor
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Posted : 08/04/10 at 16:59 |
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| Evil Giraffe! I reckon he's a taxi driver... a fuckin' expert on everything!
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From :
evil_giraffe
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Posted : 08/04/10 at 17:02 |
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That’s the thing Koerut…you’re not allowed to quote McWilliams as a source for anything because a stopped clock is right twice a day and he’s only delighted it all went wrong and sher everyone knew it couldn’t last anyway….and all that shite.
I wanted to post this article discussing the possibility that default might be our best option now but didn’t bother because a huge portion of the Irish population seem to have the same hatred for him that I have for Eoghan Harris and Brendan O’Connor. (It’s pretty much the same thing as the Economist article anyway).
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From :
koerut
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Posted : 08/04/10 at 17:25 |
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| Ah, I see, point taken. You still managed to sneak in the link, heh heh!
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From :
evil_giraffe
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Posted : 22/12/10 at 15:34 |
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NAMA eh? Any of ye see Prime Time on Monday? Some craic.
Here's an unrelated article from the Sindo. Each sentence is a work of art in it's own right. I reproduce it here in full in case any of ye click the link and help raise the bastards' advertising revenue.
Nama 'must give a share of profits to developers'
NAMA will have to "do deals" with developers and allow them to share in any profits it makes, leading property developer and philanthropist Niall Mellon has declared.
Mr Mellon cited former billionaire property developer John Fleming's decision to declare bankruptcy in the UK as a warning to Nama that it needed to work with developers to achieve the best return from the property portfolio it now controls.
"The announcement of John Fleming's bankruptcy last week is a major wake-up call to Nama.
"If Nama's approach and policies don't change very swiftly, almost every developer on their books will do the same," Mr Mellon said.
Commenting on what he believes the State's so-called 'bad bank' needs to do, he said: "If I was running Nama, I would bring in the developers and say 'I want you to help us solve this problem. And if you do, you will get to keep your home. And if you can generate more money than Nama paid for the asset, then we'll give you a share of it [the profit]'. That's commercially driven management, and that's what has to happen.
"When developers are in Nama, there's no point in talking to them about the debt they previously had with the banks. It's all about reality now.
"And reality is what Nama paid for the assets. And that's where the journey of recovery has to begin. It's completely avoiding reality to focus on what the debt was a couple of years ago. That's gone. It's past. We rebuild from where we are now."
While Mr Mellon, who is now best known for his work building homes for the poor in South Africa as head of the Niall Mellon Township Trust, readily conceded that developers had played a part in Ireland's current economic difficulties, he said they should now be incentivised by Nama.
Explaining this, he said: "It's fully understandable that there's anger from the public towards developers, because clearly they and us and anyone who has been a developer has played a part in this crisis.
"But if we want to see our own homes and our children's homes go up in value, then we have to support Nama in coming into the real world and doing deals with developers to incentivise them to get their assets refinanced or sold.
"Try to understand from a developer's point of view under the current Nama mandate. The current mandate says 'work with Nama for three, four or five years to work out your assets, and then be bankrupt anyway'."
Referring again to Cork property developer John Fleming's decision to file for bankruptcy in the UK, Mr Mellon said: "To have a billionaire developer of the talent of John Fleming decide that his only option is to declare himself a bankrupt is a major warning call of what will happen if developers are not given a realistic role.
"If the most talented players in Manchester Utd scored a few own goals, they would get a rollicking from their manager, but they wouldn't be put off the pitch. People with the talent have to be kept in play, and they have to be given a reason to stay in play."
Commenting on the Irish property market more generally and the role Nama could play in its recovery, he said: "We've had two years now in this crisis, and the situation is deteriorating because of lack of transaction activity. Confidence is the key.
"The big steps have to come from the biggest player in Irish property, which is Nama, and have to come from experienced developers managing complex portfolios of which, in most cases, they are the most qualified people to resolve the problems."
- RONALD QUINLAN
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From :
rowan
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Posted : 24/12/10 at 18:39 |
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| i don't read the sindo, but looking back - you must be impressed with your prediction abilities evil
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From :
Sagamore
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Posted : 24/12/10 at 19:30 |
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| jesus evil. give it a rest. it's christmas!!!!!!!!
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From :
number10
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Posted : 24/12/10 at 22:23 |
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Which is a good time to do a bit of thinking, Sagamore!
But, here's something: there is an element of truth in what Mellon was saying. In fact there's more than an element of truth in it: he's, more or less, right. The entire thrust of Government policy has contributed to a situation where the value of assets is driven down. The lack of liquidity of the banks adds to this. No one is lending money. Therefore no one is in a position to buy. Therefore, the 'value' of property is diminished, in some cases you might say in effect to nothing. But this is not to do with the future potential of the asset. It is to do with the current inability of banks to lend. The government successfully dragged out the insolvency-of-banks issue and thereby exacerbated the loss of value in assets. And they have therefore contributed to the insolvency of developers.
If you leave the purchase and sale of assets in the hands of people like those running NAMA, then they will further deflate the value of the assets by selling them cheaply, at whatever they can get quickly for them. It is like calling in a liquidator. Everyone knows that it is a recipe for a bunch of fucking accountants to walk away with any cash that is there to be collected, and the creditors get screwed as the liquidators feather their own nest while selling off everything at far below its real value. NAMA is like a monster liquidator and if the process is left to them they will ensure that there will be no activity in the property arena till they're done auctioning off the assets.,,
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From :
evil_giraffe
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Posted : 29/07/11 at 00:50 |
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Play this music whilst reading this article.
Some craic.
(right-click and "open in new tab" for best effect)
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From :
paaul028
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Posted : 29/07/11 at 02:19 |
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| So are you finally stepping onto the property ladder and availing of this offer then?
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From :
Mol
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Posted : 29/07/11 at 09:58 |
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Evil - this might be a stupid question, but where exactly is NAMA getting all the cash to buy these loans?
And secondly should Ireland be handing over €700m in foreign aid when we are borrowing it and paying interest on it?
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From :
number10
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Posted : 29/07/11 at 10:37 |
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Was I right?
I love the way the report is presented – that NAMA made an operating profit – but ended up with losses of over a billion fucking quid. And they're claiming that's a result!
Hahahahahahaha (Becoming more demented by the second) Haaaahahaha... hahahahahahahaha... haaaaaaahahahahahah...(tears now streaming down cheeks) Wa-hahahashahahaha... Waaaaaaaahahahahahahah (The ambulance arrives)...
Peace at last as I am wheeled away.
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From :
evil_giraffe
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Posted : 01/08/11 at 22:33 |
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"Where exactly is NAMA getting all the cash to buy these loans?"
Nama is not a state owned company.
They are Special Purpose Vehicle, 49% of which is state owned. The other 51% is privately owned (even though a lot of this is owned by nationalised banks, this does not necessarily make any of that part part state owned, it's merely owned by the minister for finance, which is different.)
They have however been granted permission to issue bonds guaranteed by the state.
This means they have been given permission to sell pieces of paper to the same people/organisations/entities that profitted from the the credit binge that brought us to where we are, that say "We NAMA will pay you back the money you give us, and if we don't the Irish State will"
To date they've sold approximately €45,000,000,000 of these.
Most of these have been bought by the ECB...see post further up this thread.
This is really, really serious, but most people don't care.
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From :
paaul028
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Posted : 01/08/11 at 23:18 |
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In your post 'Posted : 31/03/10 at 13:12' you mention that the idea of not holding firesales is bad, but you also seem against this new idea, no?
Just curious and it is a genuine question, what do you see as viable solution then if you feel this is also bad even though it genuinely may help some people i know who want to buy but were previously excluded from the market due to housing prices*.
Surely its makes sense re your post mentioned above to actually use the properties? If i have understood the above post(s) correctly you are not opposed to the dwellings being sold or purchased and more so the manner in which they are planning to make finance available?
*Note I'm not referring to the morality of whether they should buy or not etc, as i do recall in a pre NAMA days you mentioned in a thread that you were a lot happier living in Rathmines than in an over priced box in the burbs or commuter belt just to get on to the ladder.
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From :
evil_giraffe
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Posted : 02/08/11 at 07:10 |
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NAMA lending money to people to buy properties from NAMA is not a firesale.
It's lunacy.
My solution? Foreclose on the develppers who borrowed the money. Call in personal guarantees. Sell all of their assets, including ghost estates, for as much money as you can get for them right now. Give the money to the institutions they borrowed from.
If that doesn't cover their losses, fuck 'em, they might be a little bit more sensible next time around.
"But this will lead to the end of the world!"
People always say that when they want you to pay back their debts whilst they maintain a lifestyle you can only dream of.
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From :
paaul028
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Posted : 02/08/11 at 10:50 |
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| The assets thing is definitely lunacy also. There was a Primetime earlier this year, I think or late last year, where they showed how most of the developers moved their assets into their wives names thus making it harder to get them. We need a system like the states where Madoff was made pay for reckless trading, where here it seems to carry no penalties.
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