"He didn't mention my name but it was that pointed," hisses Jean Butler, as she sits in a Dublin bar on a sunny summer's afternoon, her anger as palpable as the heat. She's referring to a television interview given recently by her former dancing partner, Michael Flatley. Flatley is reported to have said "I've danced with a lot of people and none compare to these two," gesturing towards his female leads in Lord of The Dance. This time last year Butler was equally incensed at another interview Flatley gave, to Hot Press wherein, she claims, he effectively dismissed her contribution to the single most popular, influential and financially successful dance production in the world: Riverdance.
However, until now, Jean Butler has not been in a position to make public her opinion on such matters, partly as a result of the restrictions imposed by a confidentiality clause that was written into her contract with the Riverdance production she finally left late last year for reasons that, again, have never been fully explained. Even now, she admits to being afraid of 'suffering repercussions' for any form of disclosure she may make. Nevertheless, anyone with even the remotest interest in Riverdance, and the pivotal role it has played in relation to Irish culture over the past three years, must agree that it is about time Jean Butler put her story on-the-record, whatever restrictions may be involved.
Jean was born in New York and, from the time she was a child, trained in ballet, tap and Irish dancing, a grounding which later sent her winging into the world of dance performance. At 17 she began her working relationship with The Chieftains and later appeared in their video The Chieftains in Belfast. Butler also represented Ireland at the Expo '92 in Seville, and danced at the Mayo 5000 concert at the National Concert Hall, which led to her being asked to take part in the original Eurovison version of Riverdance, for which she choreographed her own solo. She subsequently danced for three years in Riverdance: The Show which now has split into two separate productions touring the world.
These high profile successes notwithstanding, Jean Butler insists that her main ambition is to further establish herself as an actress. She graduated with an Honours Degree in Theatre Studies at Birmingham University and, two years ago, starred alongside Bill Campbell and William McNamara in the movie The Brylcreem Boys. Having left Riverdance she now is nearing the end of a six-month period she took off from work. "Just to figure out where I want to go from here," she explains.
Whatever transpires, people will be watching her next move with great interest.
"When I was originally offered the Riverdance slot on the Eurovison, it definitely was a challenge to me as a dancer," Jean Butler reflects now. "But it also was a gig. I was a student, poor and knew I could use the money. It wasn't a lot but it would pay my over-draft and pay for a little holiday with my university boyfriend! That's what I really remember about how it all started."
Michael Flatley has claimed that the Eurovision performance was one of the 'purest moments' of his artistic life. But that, it transpires, is not how Jean Butler remembers that night.
"There was a tremendous buzz but I really can't remember understanding what was going on," she says. "And if you look at the video, at the end you see me jolt. That was because it was finished and I was delighted that I didn't fall. I had done it! But after that, as we were standing there, and there was the applause, I was just thinking 'get me a drink!' And the stage man had a thing of whiskey for us, as we were walking off. That s all I wanted! So, if you look at that video you see the difference between Michael's reaction, and mine. He's saying 'this is it, I have arrived' whereas I was thinking of the glass of whiskey. But then I really was numbed by the whole thing."
Had Jean any idea that she and Michael and everyone associated with Riverdance would soon be credited with irreversibly altering the nature of Irish dance?
"No," she replies, laughing. "And, to me, the reason it 'changed Irish dancing forever' is simply because it was given a platform it never had before. I really do see the dividing moment as that clear-cut. Irish dancing was never centre-stage, until Riverdance. And as for the sexuality, that definitely was a factor in the success of Riverdance, that wouldn't have happened, I believe, if it hadn't been Michael and myself dancing together. Because of my edge to match his. If it had been a sixteen year old who had no performance experience it wouldn t have worked as well, the balance wouldn't have been as tense."
As such, Jean obviously agrees with Michael who, in his Hot Press interview, said there had to be a sexual tension between them. However, when asked if he believed that this meant Jean might fancy him, Flatley answered "you'd have to ask her!" So, come clean, Jean, did you lust after Michael Flatley?
"Not in the slightest!" she says, laughing. "And I remember him giving you that answer, which is such a Michael-answer, effectively leaving it open. But that was another reason the sexual tension in Riverdance worked so well!"
Is Jean Butler really saying here that the sexual tension arose from the fact that she didn't fancy Michael Flatley and he knew it?
"Exactly!" she responds. "He knew there was no possible way he was going to get me on the couch in Lillie's Bordello! I was not available for such and could not be approached in such a way because I kept myself on another level. That was understood from the outset!"
Others clearly took a different attitude to the charms of the star - though Flatley laughingly dismissed the suggestion that a casting couch syndrome was in effect, when pushed on the issue in a Hot Press interview last year.
"Michael's affairs have been well publicised," Jean comments. "But having an affair and being involved in sexual harassment are two different things. The fact is that Michael can be extremely charming. When I met him in LA the first time I was excited to meet him because he had toured with The Chieftains and I was on tour with the Chieftains and I was aware of his reputation as a dancer. And he arrived with the diamond in his ear, the buttons on his shirt undone, the belt, the cowboy boots. And I was thinking: what is this creation and how did it happen? But he was charming."
It is at this point that anger creeps back into Jean Butler's voice. This, she explains, is because she believes that her input into Riverdance has been written out of history, not least by Flatley, and that she is not being given the credit she deserves.
"I was really angry when I read your interview with Michael, where he said that he was the catalyst in relation to changing Irish dance. It wasn't 'Jean and I were the catalyst'. But then how could Michael say something like that? Michael thinks in the first person. To give me credit wouldn t even enter into his brain. That's why there is a lot of animosity towards him in the States, because he's claiming now, 'I created this new form of Irish dancing', which is just arrogant."
Jean argues that, in making such claims, Michael Flatley is 'damaging' her professionally, particularly in terms of her attempt to launch her career in the US.
"The only time I, myself, really felt animosity towards Michael was very recently when I was in New York and saw him doing that interview on PBS, or something," she says. "Lord of The Dance was opening that week so it was himself and his two lead dancers. And he said 'this lady on my left took over from the other lead in the show' - meaning me and meaning Riverdance, when I was sick, at one point - and Michael said, "she wowed the audience and let me tell you, I've danced with a lot of people and none of them compare to these two". He didn't mention my name but it was that pointed - so much so that people were calling me up and saying, 'Jesus, can you believe that?"
Jean pauses, takes a sip from her glass of tap water.
"I was fucking furious. And I said to myself, okay, Michael, that's it. You didn't get any recognition until we danced together . And that is true. Michael was working away for years, but until he actually had a partner that could match him and bring out the best in him, like he brought out the best in me, he didn't get recognition. But he couldn't use how we worked together, artistically. He had to see it as a threat to himself, and thrash it all, because of his ego. And that's a shame because we could have done a lot more together. But then again, he is much older than me and doesn't have that many years left as a dancer. He's 39 or 40, so maybe that added to it all, from the outset."
But hold on a second Jean... on the official Story Of Riverdance video, didn't you describe Colin Dunne, Flatley's replacement in the show, as 'the best dancer' you ever worked with? So can you really bitch about it if Michael Flatley retaliates by saying something similar about you?
"But I also said he is a 'spectacular dancer'! He'd never give me credit like that, to balance things out," Jean retorts.
The origins of this cat-fight can be traced back to the now momentous decision to develop Riverdance into a full-blown show, following its shining success as a Eurovision interval act. How did Jean Butler feel about the grand plan?
"I was scared shitless," she admits. "I remember the first meeting. We went into Paul McGuinness office: myself, Bill Whelan, Michael, Moya and Barbara Galavan. Michael was completely fired, like 'this is it'. This was his ticket and he saw that. Whereas I was saying 'well, this would be great for me but I just have to state my ground here: I don't want to be part of anything that I might consider to be not of artistic merit'. Because what I foresaw even then was the way Michael would go, if given the leeway. But after we left that meeting he put me up against the wall and said (whispers) 'Don't ever say that. Do you understand what we have on the table here? Don't fuck it up that way'. And I said, 'Michael, I'm going to say what I need to say'.
The latter claim is ironic, given that Jean Butler soon discovered that there were rigid restraints in terms of what she could say to the press. Indeed, three years ago, having read an interview I did with Riverdance composer Bill Whelan, Jean approached me in a night-club saying that she'd love to do an interview like that. However even then, the freedom of the show's stars to talk to the media was being curtailed.
"At one stage," Jean recalls "when for the first time there were dark shadows being cast over the show and there were serious tensions between the performers and the producers, a confidentiality clause was written into my contract, stipulating that for six months after that contract (ended) I wasn't allowed to speak about anything, in case I'd thrash the show, or whatever. And it was if this isn't put in, you're not signing."
"That was around the time the whole billing issue came up and the English press went wild and I was told not to comment. And even after Michael left the show I was never given an interview where I could say 'this is me talking'. I was the perfect promotee for the show, did whatever I had to do. But it upset me very much at the time."
When Jean refers to the 'billing issue' she means the way her name and image were eventually dominated by Flatley's on the posters for Riverdance.
"The original posters of the show were of myself and Michael, with the billing 'Starring Michael Flatley and Jean Butler' but by the time we went to London it was Michael on the posters. I was not there, apart from my eyes," she explains. "And I was told that was happening - no questions, no nothing, that's it. I was extremely upset about that. But then from very early on - accidentally but very cunningly the show was choreographed around Michael - even though I do believe that it was the two of us that made the impact. Yes, he was on the stage much more than I was, but that was because he was in charge of dictating his stage time. He'd say, 'I'm doing this and you're not doing that' and I didn't realise what the final picture would be, that he would dominate.
It was a partnership and everyone would say to me 'how come you're not in it more?' So I tried to change that, but it was 'no way'. Michael was insecure about his position, thinking I might be undermining him. Because even though I wasn't on stage a lot of the time, the girl gets a lot of attention because of sexual appeal, whatever. But then, as I say, he was older and geared more towards asserting himself, at the expense of anyone in his way."
"This," Jean insists, "is manifest in Lord of The Dance."
"Riverdance would have been Lord of The Dance if Michael Flatley had his way," she suggests. "And when push came to shove and he was saying 'this is what I want or I'm out of here', if Moya had given him that power, Riverdance would have turned into Lord of The Dance. And Lord of The Dance is crass, it does lack the kind of 'artistic merit' I mentioned earlier. Okay, there is great dancing in it, but there is too much paint on top of it, too many lights. It's like a rock show.
"Michael wants to be a rock star and that dominates, discolours Lord of The Dance. So, although it was a very tough decision for Moya to make, she was right not to give him that power, in terms of his demand for control over what he describes as 'the dances I created'. Also, if he'd gotten that power, I would have been out.
Surely if Jean had continued to serve Flatley s purpose in Riverdance she would have stayed? And, as stated in that Hot Press interview, Michael s perspective on her role was that she should provide the female graceful elegance before his male energy made its dramatic entrance onto the stage.
I didn t serve any purpose for Michael, except for the fact that I distracted the adulation from him, Jean responds, sharply. But yes, his idea for the show was very much gender-based. The problem is that my role wasn t as passive as he might have liked it to be. I was quite powerful on stage, whereas if you look at Lord of The Dance you will see that everybody that is given any sort of solo time is there to make Michael look better. The two leading ladies he has are very able, fantastic dancers but though they re attractive they are not particularly beautiful and wouldn t be shocking on stage. They re young and growing into the parts and one day they might have that extra edge. And they were chosen because they are young, so they re under him.
I wasn t under Michael, I was competing on the same level. And he didn t want that. In fact when he put in all those demands, at the end, in terms of having the right to choose who dances what and which female dancers I dance with , that was directly pointed at me. He didn t want me. He would have picked somebody else, to diminish my position, even though, by that stage, it already had been diminished enough. That s what I believe. And that s why I wasn t surprised when it hit the papers about the contract he wanted before Moya let him go as in #50,000 a week, all that. It just confirmed my worst fears about Michael. And theirs.
Does Jean feel that she herself was well-served, financially, by Riverdance ?
Certainly not. There is a huge gap between the reality and what people might think. Everyone assumes I m a millionaire. That s not the case.
Can she say if there was a huge difference between what Michael Flatley earned and what Jean Butler earned?
There was.
Is that part of the reason she left the show?
I didn t leave because of money, she claims. I left for artistic reasons. As far as I could see I had taken the role as far as I could and they weren t interested in changing it. It had become very much a product at that stage of the game. So it just became a chore, me thinking, God, if I have to put on that costume again I ll crack up . Simply because we were doing the show so much, all over the world. Even physically, I was fading away. But what also started to happen was this huge power-play between the producers and the artists about where the whole thing was going, which is still going on.
After Michael left, there certainly was the idea, you can t have any stars anymore . As in, we re so afraid to give anybody anything extra because they ll do what Michael did . But that was a completely unfair position to put someone like myself in, who had been there from the start and had been as professional as possible. I was very put out by that. They were trying to pull me down when it suited them but then, when they wanted to sell the show, it was call out Jean Butler . Like when we got to Radio City.
It was a constant fight, with me saying I m doing the best you will get here and you should appreciate that . And not in monetary terms. In terms of respect for the fact that I didn t want to go on David Letterman and be a performing monkey. I stopped doing all that stuff. I refused to dance on television because they wouldn t even mention my name! They d say, and now the Riverdance company and I d respond, Okay, I am part of the Riverdance company but I m also a single artist and I have a future to protect . Finally, it got to a stage where I realised there is no turning back. So it was, the heart s gone, guys, I love the show, but it s over for me . And I did love the show. I do think it s a very classy show, but I still believe that the moment I left was the right moment for me to leave.
Was Jean s relationship with Moya Doherty and John McColgan soured by her decision to leave?
That s a tough question, she responds. On the surface everything seems fine. But the build up was not easy, in terms of leaving a show I had well, I m not going to say created , because people get in trouble when they move into the area of the ownership claim. But none of that was easy for me.
Jean Butler is probably wise to tread carefully when the conversation turns to the ownership claim in relation to Riverdance. Michael Flatley has been involved in a legal tussle with Doherty and McColgan about this very issue. His argument is that he owned the dance steps he created, and that this would entitle him to, at least, 2% royalties from all future productions, which is the basic choreographer s rate. The counter-argument, is that the producers own the entire show, including his services, which they d already paid for. Is this why Jean is so cautious when it comes to this question of ownership?
Yes, and it is a huge issue right now, she responds. At the moment there are two productions of Riverdance up and running. From our perspective, Michael s work is in them, my work is in them. So the question is: is it like a composer s right where we should be getting this much money per night because our choreography is being used? I definitely think Michael is entitled to a percentage. However, all this hasn t been dealt with, in dancing terms. Or legally. Or even in a copyright way. But I would say that Michael is entitled to that, as I am, because, as I say, my work is being done every night, as well. And it is time to break new ground on this whole issue. It has to be addressed now.
Is Jean Butler in legal conflict with Moya and John over this issue?
I m certainly doing some severe research into what my whole rights are, she says.
So, beyond all this, what about Jean Butler s future, on a professional level? Was it, primarily, her experience with Riverdance that made her publicly state, I m not a dancer, I act .
I certainly don t want to do another dance show, she declares. It s not necessarily just a reaction against Riverdance. But because, first and foremost, I would like to get a film career. That s why I was nervous about going into Riverdance in the first place. I was saying to myself, If you stay in this too long, babe, you re going to be in a box as in being seen as a dancer. But, even this week, I came so close to getting a major part as a heroin addict in a movie. That s exactly the kind of role I m after to undo that thing of, oh she s a dancer-turned-actress, isn t she? Yes, I have danced all my life, but it is theatre I studied, acting I love.
Jean Butler describes theatre in Ireland as terribly unexciting , with the exception of Martin McDonagh s The Leenane Trilogy. She may produce her own plays, which she claims would be Sam Sheppard, Tom Stoppard, modern in-your-face, twentieth century theatre. She is also writing a book, entitled Borrowing From The Career Bank. All of which suggests that, despite her claims about not doing very well, financially, out of Riverdance, she is comfortable enough not to have had to work for at least a half year.
Producing your own play is not expensive, and the fact that I bought two houses in Dublin does take the comfort away to a great degree, so I still need to work, she responds.
She is based in Dublin, partly because back around the beginning of Riverdance she became romantically involved with one of the singers in the show, from Anzna.
He doesn t sing with Anzna anymore, she explains. But, more importantly, I moved here after doing my degree in England because I had a lot of friends in Ireland, among traditional musicians, in particular. I also have an agent here and, ironically, thought I could do better in this country, because of my Irish looks, though that now has begun to work against me, largely as a result of Riverdance. That s why I ve even cut my hair, to move against all that. And why I had to leave Riverdance. If I hadn t I d have been a nut case!
Certainly, one can easily imagine the physical and emotional demands of a show like Riverdance taking their toll, though Jean Butler is dismissive of the suggestion that drugs were ever used as a crutch by cast members. However, she does allege more traditional excesses behind the scenes.
In terms of drink, yes, I am really scared about how many alcoholics this show may have created, but I was never known for drinking too much, she says.
Asked if she feels boxed in legally and emotionally, when it comes to what she can publicly disclose about back-stage behaviour in the show Jean responds, yes, and financially , adding that she wouldn t be very popular if she revealed all she knows. Unpopular with who?
Probably all the people of Ireland and it s too soon to take that on, on my own, she elaborates. But it s also out of teeny, weenie bit of respect for Moya and John because they are very powerful people. And whatever faults they have, they have created something that is extremely successful. But, who really wanted to know that JFK had a huge affair with Marilyn Monroe? Particularly so soon after he was assassinated? The reality of all that was too much for people to accept. And this show is the same, loved and adored, in general.
It wouldn t do me any good at the moment, she adds. Yet someone has to tell the story of what really went on behind the scenes. And it may be me, after my book is thoroughly surveyed by legal assistants! I do want to tell how the business of Riverdance works, how you are thrown to the dogs. And that it s not what it looks like on the outside, at all. That said, my book isn t going to be woe-is-me shit or vengeful, but it will be the story as I know it. And no matter how powerful these people are I do have every right to tell that story. And I will. n