On first looking into the new album by Newry diehards The 4 Of Us, I was somewhat disconcerted to note that as well as being called Heaven And Earth, there was a track called ‘Gospel Choir’. Had the 4 morphed into M,M,L and J when we weren’t looking? When I further recalled that these are the folks who gave us ‘Mary’ and ‘Baby Jesus’, I reckoned I had all the makings of a conspiracy theory.

Fortunately, Brendan Murphy was as close as the other end of a phone line with emphatic reassurances that they hadn’t gone all Godbothersome on us. “Actually,” he pointed out, “the first line of ‘Gospel Choir’ actually says ‘I’m not sure there’s a God’. Maybe in terms of searching for something there might be something spiritual in it, but otherwise, no. The title just seemed to sum up the lyrical thrust of the songs. Classifed Personal, our last album, had a more personal element, whereas Heaven And Earth looks beyond the personal. With every album you want to do something different. Then again, maybe as you get older you ask different questions. But it’s definitely not a concept album or a religious album.”

To my ears Heaven And Earth sounds less like a conventional band album and more like the songs have been given whatever soundwashes they need to evoke different moods.

“We wanted to avoid that layered approach and get something more ethereal,” Brendan explains. “Whether we’ve achieved that, other people can judge. But we didn’t want an album that just sounds like four people playing in a room. Apart from Man Alive, it’s probably a rare album for us in that the rhythm tracks went down together. But having done that we tried to raise the bar in terms of the ambience we created for each track one by one.”

In the past, some records by the Newry men featured that big direct pop production sound, whereas Heaven And Earth is less in your face, with more subtlety and empty space.

“I don’t feel particularly in your face at the minute, and I always try to make a record that I want to listen to,” Brendan responds. “For the first album we wanted it like a record you’d put on just before you’d go out to a nightclub. This one is more of a chill-out after a long busy day, without being boring and with lots of soul. We’ve been listening to people like Al Green and Marvin Gaye, where you get lots of space plus a lot of ambience. ‘You Make Me Feel’ is to me the most overtly conventional 4 Of Us track on there. I think ‘No Guarantees’ has that driving, melodic thing that people associated with us in the past.”

So who else has been featuring on the Murphy three-in-one in recent times, apart from Al and Martin?

“The last album I bought was the new Tom Waits’ one. I bought it partly because the artwork was so good and the liner notes were really interesting. I also got Beck’s Sea Change. I feel I know where he’s coming from. Ryan Adams’ Gold. Van Morrison’s No Guru, No Method , No Teacher, Dylan’s Blood On The Tracks, the first Planxty album.”

I detected a Neil Young feel in the track ‘Someday Soon’ on Heaven And Earth. Is he another influence?

“Somebody else mentioned that. When I was singing it I realised it was coming out countryish. It’s a bit higher than I normally sing. ‘Gold Digger’ also flirts with country a bit too.”

I mention that the vocal in the verses of ‘Gold Digger’ brought Jim Morrison to mind. Not surprisingly, Murphy doesn’t actually explode at the comparison.

“That’s great! I’d give my left leg to sing like Jim Morrison! But I’ve never tried to sing like anybody else. I’m more interested in trying to evoke a mood. But I think the pitch you sing a song in has a lot to do with who else it might sound like.”

According to Sting, records are never really finished, they just get abandoned at what you hope is the right point. Does Murphy go along with that?

“Absolutely. In fact Sting also said that there are some artists who never abandon them and you never hear from them again! He’s right. But maybe he’s abandoned a few records a little before he should have, and I’m a massive Police fan! In fact he thought their album Regatta de Blanc was crap, but it has massive energy because it was recorded so fast. But you can go on recording forever, and you have to call a halt sometime. Then again, some people just love being in the studio and don’t want to leave. Remember The Beatles who made their best albums when they stopped touring.”

Over the coming months, Murphy will hear tracks from Heaven & Earth on the radio and in record shops and elsewhere, so will he be constantly thinking about the extra tweak that could have been done to this or that track?

“Not at all. Once it’s done, it’s done. In fact, I’m already thinking about the next album. But sometimes it’s like a new photo. You might feel you don’t look too great in it, but a few years later you think you don’t look too bad at all.”