Brendan Gleeson’s is nothing if not versatile. He’s played a hot-headed Scottish captain in Braveheart, a real-life crime baron in The General and a mad professor in Harry Potter.

In his latest film, John Michael McDonagh’s brilliantly satirical and darkly funny The Guard, Gleeson’s performance combines all his strengths. As the outrageous and unorthodox country Garda Gerry Boyle, Gleeson is hilarious. Boyle makes offensive jokes and slurs and nonchalantly declares that “I’m Irish – racism is part of my culture”. It’s sometimes difficult to gauge whether his divisive statements are serious, or if he’s the only one who understands the big joke behind it all. Or, as Gleeson’s co-star Don Cheadle puts it, “I can’t tell if you’re really motherfucking dumb or really motherfucking smart.” What we can say, apparently, is that he’s
a motherfucker...
But unlike his character, there’s no questioning Gleeson’s intelligence and sensitivity. During President Obama’s visit to Ireland last month, Gleeson gave a rousing speech to the huge assembly at College Green, reminding the audience of the country’s long-standing tradition of tolerance. The following day he sat down for a chat with Hot Press.
I saw your speech yesterday. It seemed like such an incredible day for everyone.
It felt that way. And I think everyone who was there was open to it. I found it inspirational. I wanted it to turn things around and I think it actually did. The energy was amazing.
And did you get to talk to Obama?
Ah yeah! We didn’t talk about very much. He was meeting and greeting people. Daniel Day-Lewis was there and Gabriel Byrne. We were chatting away. Michelle came around at one point and I said something inane like, "We really needed that – thanks, for leading the faith, saying that we’re worth believing in." She said, "Yeah, yeah – work work work!" And I thought that was really cool because it wasn’t about any abstract concept of faith, hope and charity. It was about work… which I suppose is an abstract concept to some. And I think that’s the answer we have to face into now after the euphoria: we have to do the work.
I saw The Guard yesterday and it was very interesting seeing you playing a character who says, “Sure I’m Irish, racism is part of my culture”...
(Laughs uproariously) He doesn’t believe that! He’s only provoking, don’t you think? It’s the shock factor. Because people do that all the time, especially here, especially – (giggles) – down the country. I think it's a tester to see, "Well, how racist are you?" When I was talking about Daniel O’Connell and [19th century Afro-American civil rights activist] Frederick Douglass in the speech, reading the quotes about when Douglass came over – that quote was true. He said he found no prejudice and he was transformed. Now, I’m not sure if that is true of today...
Do you think we’re getting more prejudiced?
We have to watch it. And I think we can look into the past to gain inspiration. I really felt, Jesus, there are so many times you come across claims that maybe we’re racist in America or we’re racist here. You begin to believe badly of yourself, that the Irish as a nation can be racist. Because they can!
You mentioned that when Frederick Douglass came to Ireland, he found the Irish refreshingly tolerant...
Here’s a guy who came over when we were starving and all he finds is a total lack of prejudice and a total empathy – this is written down. And he’s one of the great leaders, you know? He found absolutely none of this. He went down to Cork and at one point he was staying with a Protestant guy who had quite a large family. The thing Douglass loved about him was that he would absolutely eat the face off him in an argument. Other people would be trying to placate him, and were scared in case they were seen as anti-black. So he was getting all this inanity, from people who were trying to be PC or whatever. He said his own anti-abolitionist guys in America, the guys who were in the anti-slavery movement – the white people – would be afraid to slam him for something he said, because it might be seen to be anti-black or something. Whereas this guy down in Cork would absolutely eat the face off him, because he actually was colour-blind. He didn’t care who he was, what he said was the issue. And Douglass stayed with him for ages, because of this: he said it was just incredibly refreshing. Not only was there no prejudice, but there was also proper engagement on a level where race didn’t come into it.
Do you think we’ll become less tolerant because of the recession?
Well, there’s the practicality of you looking at somebody from somewhere else who has your job. Now you didn’t want that job when the good times were there, so they came in and did it. Now you look at them and you resent the fact they’re still working here. That’s the problem. It’s a very practical thing. And we have to – everybody has to – fight this thing of saying Us and Them. It happens everywhere – Northside versus Southside of the city, country versus Dublin. Everytime you have to say, "Jesus, do I actually believe what I’m saying here?"
A lot of these rivalries are referenced now in a very jokey way, whether it’s Northsiders versus Southsiders, or this decade’s running joke: Polish people coming over and working harder than we
ever did.
There is a thing about slagging people and slagging away. When push comes to shove and you see somebody in a job, and you’ve lost yours, and you want the job, you have to fight the instinct that says, "Okay, every man for himself". I think everybody, at some point is going to say, "Jesus, who’s yer man…?" It happens so quickly and so easily. And we should remember that Paddy wasn’t always welcome in
other countries.
Shooting the fiilm, the Connemara community embraced you with open arms...
The people were unbelievable. You see Connemara in a different way altogether working there. We had to do the last two weeks in Wicklow because the Spiddal pier wouldn’t work for our big pier scene. We needed a longer one for that big long walk. And Jesus we felt so bereft! Connemara had become so enmeshed in the whole film.
You’re so busy, it must be a luxury for you to shoot in Ireland. Does the travelling take a toll?
Travelling, it opens your mind but… it messes up your lungs! I always get a cough. I love working here in Ireland. The last few years haven’t been great, in terms of trying to keep the spirits up. But I love this place and working in it.
How does working on a low-budget picture compare to something like Harry Potter?
It’s not very different, if you’re working with proper people. My best memories of Harry Potter are of listening to Michael Gambon talking and chatting when we were waiting to go on for something. They were my treasured moments. It was hilarious. And you could be in The Gate or you could be in The Abbey. It doesn’t matter where you are, once you connect with people on a work level. If you go on a set where there’s a lot of ego, it’s like a nightmare. If you go onto a set like Braveheart and see one hundred and fifty FSA men dressed up in skirts, you just go, "This is an extraordinary thing to see, I’m never going to see this again, ever." And then you feel the thrill of it. And it is thrilling to be involved in this industry because it’s make-believe – and then there’s reality to it. I mean, it’s genuinely, physically stunning to go into a place like Tinta in Rome for Gangs Of New York and see the Five Points reconstructed for three scenes. It’s that weird thing of saying, "Jesus, there is magic possible in the world! And the way you make it is by hammering
nails in!"
What draws you to smaller projects like the
The Guard?
With the smaller budget stuff I’d get more meaty, interesting roles. You can throw yourself into it for a long period of time. With big blockbusters I suppose I don’t really get major start-to-finish starring roles a
lot of the time. I love doing character work on big films, because you can come in and do it in a very short time. You can come in at a certain time and make certain decisions that don’t have any repercussions down the line.
The Guard and In Bruges share a very dark sense
of humour..
I’ve played a lot of characters who did particularly nasty things, and sometimes you try to find the humanity in them, and other times the point is that they overrode that humanity. Sometimes you have to say, "No, this guy was a genuinely bad person. He didn’t care – he looked at the options and chose the evil one." And once you serve the truth, you create something beautiful from that. There are enough ugly things in the world. If you’re going to create something, it should have a certain beauty, even if it stems from an ugly truth. Not necessarily that it looks beautiful, not that it makes an uplifting story – but that it’s cathartic in the sense that it makes the human condition clearer, that people feel less alone. That’s my whole thing now, I keep quoting that because I made it up… Well, I don’t know if I made it up, I’m sure someone else said it first. But
I’m claiming it! The purpose of art is to make people feel less alone. So you can play anyone, as long as you’re looking to serve that greater thing and to get to the truth.
So when you read a script like The Guard and your character Gerry Boyle has to make comments like, “I thought black people couldn’t ski, or is that swimming?” and “I thought only black lads were drug dealers. And Mexicans." How do you make sure it comes across as funny and not offensive?
Gerry Boyle can say whatever he wants. Because
first of all, he doesn’t believe these things, and he doesn’t think that black people can’t swim. He’s teasing. And he’s provoking to see how much humanity is coming out from the other side. And I think the great thing with Don [Cheadle’s] character is that he begins to understand where all this is going and they become friends.
I have to mention your son Domhnall – you were in Harry Potter together. Were you wary of him entering the industry ?
I was wary for him as a kid and you know, with Harry Potter, I was wary for those kids. But then they were brilliant so maybe I was a little overprotective. I wanted them to have a childhood. So once they reached the stage where they were little men and they could make the decision to go or not go, I was delighted that if they wanted to go into acting, they should. It took me ’til I was 34 to fully commit to it, to say, "No, this is what I should be putting on my passport." So if that’s where they flourished, I was more than happy. If it’s for you, and you’re doing
it for the proper reasons, it’s brilliant to do what
you love.
They said this year they’d have to rename the IFTAS “The Gleesons”: you both scooped everything!
Ah yeah… and they should! (Laughs.)
You plan to make your directorial debut with Flann O’Brien’s At Swim-Two-Birds.
I‘ve been trying to get that made for years now. I got the rights about seven years ago and it took me about four years to get the script to where it’s really right. So the past two or three years it’s just trying to dig out support. At this point, everyone I wanted to be in it is in it.
Are Colin Farrell and Cillian Murphy involved?
Yep, and Gabriel Byrne and Michael Fassbender. They all want to be in it, they all want to do it.
Was it important to you that the cast be Irish?
It was important, but also, they are the best people! And so that’s what’s going to happen if it can all come together. But it’s really, really tricky to get all your ducks in a row, and to get the financing at a time when everyone was absolutely bricking themselves, and nobody knew where the industry is going. Everybody’s being really tight. So it’s challenging.
Flann O’Brien for your first film. Not an easy task!
Ah yeah, but sure why not! Sure he wrote that when he was 25! There was a guy Dirk Powell I played music with in Cold Mountain and we became close, so I told him I was trying to get this script up and running and that I’d send him the book. I said, "To be honest, it's actually unfilmable!" And he said. "Yeah, you’re right, it is unfilmable, but don’t forget – the book was unwriteable." And that was a really cool way of looking at it, because it completely freed me up. Because the point is the book was written. So the film, no matter how unfilmable, will get there.
What inspired you to take it on?
The rights came up seven years ago! I never wanted to direct if I knew someone else could do it as well or better. I don’t have an egotistical need to have ‘Director’ on my CV In fact, it’s a pain, because it takes 18 months out of your life. I love acting. So I never wanted to do it as a vanity project or anything.
So why did you change your mind about
directing it?
I got really proprietary about it. John Byrne, who I was trying to get to direct it, said, "Look, you appear to know exactly what you want from this". The only reason I’m doing it is because I have a vision of it. I’m sure people are going to throw eggs at it if they’re expecting the At Swim-Two-Birds that they imagined – it ain’t going to happen! It’s going to be something else, something that’s part me. And that’s the only reason I’m doing it.